O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[OchPie]

He'd do well to fund an organisation that ceased to exist about ten years ago.

As an organisation it's dead. As a movement, far from it. Its supporters didn't suddenly all become compassionate conservatives, it just decentralised.

[keldsyke]

As an organisation it's dead. As a movement, far from it. Its supporters didn't suddenly all become compassionate conservatives, it just decentralised.

Thanks for clearing that up, that your comments are not based on fact but what you want to think is happening like Kent Magpie.

[The Dug Out]

I?m sorry that people are triggered by what they see as unfair use of the term *far right*. Unfortunately its difficult to avoid when theres been a far right president elected in the US, theres a far right tech billionaire trying to bring down the UK government with the support of the Conservative Party, there are far right criminals being locked up for incitement to murder, there were far right riots during the summer, there are far right activists threatening to murder a female Labour mp (again), and theres a far right representative acting as shadow justice secretary.


If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well Im sure even the dimmest posters know the rest.

There was this fantastic piece posted ironically on Twitter yesterday. Im pretty sure the people who need to read it probably wont, but I think it?s worth sharing part of it nevertheless.

The past few days have seen a new low in British politics, where one of the most sensitive and most troubling crimes - child abuse - has been politicised by two parties, the Conservatives and Reform

Any person with an iota of common decency will acknowledge that child abuse, in any of its forms, by whoever the perpetrators are, is utterly abhorrent

And all of us can agree that those guilty of abusing children should have the most severe sentence our courts can deliver

That the authorities in some places, be they in local councils, the police, or any other institution, made the active choice to cover up child abuse, is sickening, and every person responsible for this ought to be held to account

When you search for ?grooming gangs? in Hansard from 2010 to end 2024, there are 183 results.

There?s an entry from Lee Anderson (2021) saying grooming gangs should be locked up. - I don?t agree with Anderson on many things, but on this I do agree with him

But that?s it

Not a single Conservative MP who is now actively vocal in recent days used the phrase ?grooming gangs? in parliament. That's how much they actually cared about the subject

And sadly, it?s even worse than that, one Conservative MP, Sajid Javid, when he was Home Secretary, stripped a British girl who had been groomed online by an organised gang of terrorists, of her citizenship

Instead of going after the groomers, Javid went after the victim of the groomers, Shamima Begum

If she is indeed guilty of any crimes, she ought to be serving a prison sentence in our country, along with whatever professional services are required to address the fact that she was groomed, along with the subsequent trauma of finding herself subjected to the whims of womanising terrorists overseas

There's a desperation in the calls from Conservative/Reform MPs, it's a faux anger, because instead of calling to enact the 20 recommendations from the Alexis Jay's Inquiry, which took 7 years, they're focused on calling for another inquiry instead

And sadly, it?s even worse than that, one Conservative MP, Sajid Javid, when he was Home Secretary, stripped a British girl who had been groomed online by an organised gang of terrorists, of her citizenshi


I presume you mean Shamimma Begum, which Javid was quite right to do so, strip her of British Citizenship, she was not in anyway an abused young girl who was raped on a systematic level by pakistani men in Great Britain she went on her own decision to Syria to join ISIS, what she did whilst she was an ISIS bride we will never know, she says she saw things, most peoplle who have more intelligance on this matter say she was complicit in attrocious butchering acts on people ISIS don't like. She should never be allowed to set foot in GB again, BUT, for the next few years we have a "government" that is hell bent on turning Britain into a muslim enclave, so she may be back.

Every person that is, or was, complicit in this, the greatest child abuse in our history, should be sought out and jailed.

[OchPie]

Thanks for clearing that up, that your comments are not based on fact but what you want to think is happening like Kent Magpie.

You're wrong, but that's ok.

[drillerpie]

If only you knew a single thing about me, eh?

A lot of what I stated there was directly from Stalins biography

Kotkin - Stalin, Paradoxes of Power 1878-1928

Kotkin - Stalin, Waiting for Hitler 1929-1941

A People's Tragedy - A History of the Russian Revolution

Edit: Feel free to read a book yourself, and your edit showed your ignorance.

Stephen Kotkin is tremendously informative on Russia. Decades of research in the Russian archives translating and analysing documents and he explains it all in such an accessible way. A lot of his talks are available on YouTube and I enjoy them hugely.

Just want to pick your brains on a couple of things though. I thought the mod to late twenties were the only time in Stalin's reign that there was anything approaching a 'liberal' policy, and early thirties onwards was the beginning of enforcement of collectivised agriculture and therefore severe repression and famine. I may be wrong but would be interested to know.

Second question is does 'Waiting for Hitler' get into Stalin's view of Nazism and fascism? I have a feeling I've read or heard (possibly from Kotkin) that according to record of Soviet government meetings Stalin didn't care too much about the rise of Hitler or Mussolini, he was happy to trade with both of them and he was perfectly happy for them to flourish as he thought they would accelerate the fall of capitalism, which was his main goal. Of course that changed when Hitler broke the pact and attacked him, but until self-defence became an issue he was far from an anti-fascist. Don't know how long ago you read these or if you still look at them but can your confirm or deny this?

By the way, if you're interested in the history of the Russian security apparatus I can recommend The Mitrokhin Archive. It's a bit of a slog at times but also very informative.

[magpie_mania]

And sadly, it?s even worse than that, one Conservative MP, Sajid Javid, when he was Home Secretary, stripped a British girl who had been groomed online by an organised gang of terrorists, of her citizenshi


I presume you mean Shamimma Begum, which Javid was quite right to do so, strip her of British Citizenship, she was not in anyway an abused young girl who was raped on a systematic level by pakistani men in Great Britain she went on her own decision to Syria to join ISIS, what she did whilst she was an ISIS bride we will never know, she says she saw things, most peoplle who have more intelligance on this matter say she was complicit in attrocious butchering acts on people ISIS don't like. She should never be allowed to set foot in GB again, BUT, for the next few years we have a "government" that is hell bent on turning Britain into a muslim enclave, so she may be back.

Every person that is, or was, complicit in this, the greatest child abuse in our history, should be sought out and jailed.

'for the next few years we have a "government" that is hell bent on turning Britain into a muslim enclave,'

That's a sweeping statement - based on what?

[SinceSept1959]

I’m sorry that people are triggered by what they see as unfair use of the term *far right*. Unfortunately its difficult to avoid when theres been a far right president elected in the US, theres a far right tech billionaire trying to bring down the UK government with the support of the Conservative Party, there are far right criminals being locked up for incitement to murder, there were far right riots during the summer, there are far right activists threatening to murder a female Labour mp (again), and theres a far right representative acting as shadow justice secretary.


If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well Im sure even the dimmest posters know the rest.

There was this fantastic piece posted ironically on Twitter yesterday. Im pretty sure the people who need to read it probably wont, but I think it’s worth sharing part of it nevertheless.

The past few days have seen a new low in British politics, where one of the most sensitive and most troubling crimes - child abuse - has been politicised by two parties, the Conservatives and Reform

Any person with an iota of common decency will acknowledge that child abuse, in any of its forms, by whoever the perpetrators are, is utterly abhorrent

And all of us can agree that those guilty of abusing children should have the most severe sentence our courts can deliver

That the authorities in some places, be they in local councils, the police, or any other institution, made the active choice to cover up child abuse, is sickening, and every person responsible for this ought to be held to account

When you search for ‘grooming gangs’ in Hansard from 2010 to end 2024, there are 183 results.

There’s an entry from Lee Anderson (2021) saying grooming gangs should be locked up. - I don’t agree with Anderson on many things, but on this I do agree with him

But that’s it

Not a single Conservative MP who is now actively vocal in recent days used the phrase ‘grooming gangs’ in parliament. That's how much they actually cared about the subject

And sadly, it’s even worse than that, one Conservative MP, Sajid Javid, when he was Home Secretary, stripped a British girl who had been groomed online by an organised gang of terrorists, of her citizenship

Instead of going after the groomers, Javid went after the victim of the groomers, Shamima Begum

If she is indeed guilty of any crimes, she ought to be serving a prison sentence in our country, along with whatever professional services are required to address the fact that she was groomed, along with the subsequent trauma of finding herself subjected to the whims of womanising terrorists overseas

There's a desperation in the calls from Conservative/Reform MPs, it's a faux anger, because instead of calling to enact the 20 recommendations from the Alexis Jay's Inquiry, which took 7 years, they're focused on calling for another inquiry instead

A rather biased claim that " far right thugs " have again threatened to murder a Labour MP ? There's a fine line between mental illness and Politically inspired violence ?
Politicians across all parties have been threatened many times including Farage and Lee Anderson !
Ironically, Rosie Duffield , allegedly received such threats from "Labour " supporters for leaving the Party to sit as an Independent MP !
Of course, " incitement " can have tragic and life changing consequences and as such cannot be tolerated. Like most actions these days, there appears to be dual standards or if you like two-tier responses.
Jo Brand for example, the so called comedienne and BBC luvvie icon, was mildly rebuked for her "humourous" comment to carry out an acid attack on Farage !
Being a "left wing bandwagon thug" is OK then ?
This of course could have intended/ unintended consequences especially if such actions were to become reality.
Thankfully , the Only Fans Model, who carried out such an attack only used a Milkshake !

[keldsyke]

You're wrong, but that's ok.

More fact based stuff there, just out of interest what do you think to the Grimsby match being postponed?

[Med Pie]

As an organisation it's dead. As a movement, far from it. Its supporters didn't suddenly all become compassionate conservatives, it just decentralised.

Explain how this money has been allocated, who to and how used?

[SinceSept1959]

Strange comments about Shamima being a victim of online manipulative forces. Perhaps if the messages being conveyed by those particular
" manipulative forces " were scrutinised as thoroughly as other forums then maybe she wouldn't have been drawn in to that scenario ?

Also interesting , is the opinion that those in favour of greater safeguarding and protection for women and children, should be viewed as " right wing bandwagon opportunists " rather than decent, righteous and right minded people !

Of course ,the left wingers never resort to such measures, despite many being ageist, boomer loathing, anti democratic, individuals blaming Economic mismanagement of the economy,waste and national debt ,squarely on pensioners and their WFA for example.

It seems the art of debate is extinct.
Youngsters rarely engage in conversation preferring to sit immersed in online content and University cultures "cancel" students and individuals with any thoughts that are alternative to narratives and popular agendas.
In effect, the lack of reasoning and tolerance has been suppressed by design, with far reaching tentacles enacted by politicised legal executives.