DFCSS Fans Rep Update

[Deeranged]

Dee4life cannot become a member of the DSA but you might remember that the DSA were part of Dee4life until they decided to leave in August 2014.
I heard that the DSA were poor at providing receipts to the treasurer of Dee4life for expenditure carried out by themselves for DSA events and that was one of the reasons why they left.
Nelms wanted the members of the Open Letter Group to join the DSA so that the DSA committee members could keep them under control.
In the event the Open Letter Group turned out to be a failure after Nelms refused to answer a detailed list of questions they had submitted to him.
This is similar to the Dundee City Council planning officers submitting questions to Nelms in June 2024 regarding his PPIP application which do not appear to have been answered as there was no mention of it being discussed at the Dundee City Council Planning Committee February 2025 meeting.

When I first joined the DFCSS (as it was then) board I sat in my first meeting in the Dens Park boardroom where the DFCSS Treasurer asked one of the then DSA head bummers to account for costs and expenditure at a PoTY function that they'd arranged. Seemingly this was the third or fourth attempt to get someone that had been involved in organising the event to appear at any meeting to account in any way for this.

The 'organiser' proceeded to say this that and the next thing with 'that cost around....... we sold X tickets and took in something like' etc. He then produced an amount of cash from his pockets, notes and bags of coins in absolutely no order, and presented it as the takings from the event - not a single receipt or invoice was presented. When asked how much was spent and came in and how much money there was in total he just said 'I have no idea'. I was totally gobsmacked by all of this and here's the best bit - the man in question was seemingly a successful local businessman.

The estimate was that there was a significant shortfall to which the response was simply 'we had guests, paid their expenses and gave out gifts on the night'. The word 'unbelievable' barely does it justice.

ETA - to this day I believe the main driver for DSA exiting DFCSS was that they were being found out as less than competent to properly organise and account for a pi55 up in a brewery (PoTY dnner is no better than that) and being asked to provide evidence of income and expenditure didn't fit their ethos.

[BCram]

When I first joined the DFCSS (as it was then) board I sat in my first meeting in the Dens Park boardroom where the DFCSS Treasurer asked one of the then DSA head bummers to account for costs and expenditure at a PoTY function that they'd arranged. Seemingly this was the third or fourth attempt to get someone that had been involved in organising the event to appear at any meeting to account in any way for this.

The 'organiser' proceeded to say this that and the next thing with 'that cost around....... we sold X tickets and took in something like' etc. He then produced an amount of cash from his pockets, notes and bags of coins in absolutely no order, and presented it as the takings from the event - not a single receipt or invoice was presented. When asked how much was spent and came in and how much money there was in total he just said 'I have no idea'. I was totally gobsmacked by all of this and here's the best bit - the man in question was seemingly a successful local businessman.

The estimate was that there was a significant shortfall to which the response was simply 'we had guests, paid their expenses and gave out gifts on the night'. The word 'unbelievable' barely does it justice.

ETA - to this day I believe the main driver for DSA exiting DFCSS was that they were being found out as less than competent to properly organise and account for a pi55 up in a brewery (PoTY dnner is no better than that) and being asked to provide evidence of income and expenditure didn't fit their ethos.

Good account of the first meeting you attended, Deeranged. Does not sound business like and one would hope that the accounting process has improved. Dee4life accounts are quite straightforward, surely DSA accounts have improved? Any comments from DSA office bearers?

[Deeranged]

Good account of the first meeting you attended, Deeranged. Does not sound business like and one would hope that the accounting process has improved. Dee4life accounts are quite straightforward, surely DSA accounts have improved? Any comments from DSA office bearers?

I have no idea if DSA accounts or accounting system have improved, however given the calibre of those that run it it's very doubtful.

[Deeranged]

Good account of the first meeting you attended, Deeranged. Does not sound business like and one would hope that the accounting process has improved. Dee4life accounts are quite straightforward, surely DSA accounts have improved? Any comments from DSA office bearers?

The meeting itself was well enough run, it was only this particular disgrace of presentation of accounts by the DSA arm that was a shambles.

[islaydarkblue]

I have no idea if DSA accounts or accounting system have improved, however given the calibre of those that run it it's very doubtful.

I can confirm that the DSA accounts and accounting system has greatly improved since Matt Edwards was appointed the Treasurer of the DSA with a detailed income and expenditure account for their POTY dinner being provided every year and it is sent to the secretary of every DSA affiliated member club to be forwarded to every member of each club.
A list of all the DSA donations to various parts of Dundee Football Club is also sent to the secretary of every DSA affiliated member club to be forwarded to every member of each club.
My one complaint about the DSA AGM is that only a maximum of two members from each DSA affiliated club is allowed to attend the AGM unlike the Dee4life AGM which is open for all members to attend.
In my opinion every member of a DSA affiliated club should be able to attend the DSA AGM to find out what has been happening during the previous 12 months and it might encourage ‘new blood’ on to the DSA Committee.

[islaydarkblue]

The meeting itself was well enough run, it was only this particular disgrace of presentation of accounts by the DSA arm that was a shambles.

I have heard the name of the person who was hopeless at providing receipts for DSA POTY’s from a reliable source and that this DSA person was instrumental in DSA leaving Dee4life

[Deeranged]

I can confirm that the DSA accounts and accounting system has greatly improved since Matt Edwards was appointed the Treasurer of the DSA with a detailed income and expenditure account for their POTY dinner being provided every year and it is sent to the secretary of every DSA affiliated member club to be forwarded to every member of each club.
A list of all the DSA donations to various parts of Dundee Football Club is also sent to the secretary of every DSA affiliated member club to be forwarded to every member of each club.
My one complaint about the DSA AGM is that only a maximum of two members from each DSA affiliated club is allowed to attend the AGM unlike the Dee4life AGM which is open for all members to attend.
In my opinion every member of a DSA affiliated club should be able to attend the DSA AGM to find out what has been happening during the previous 12 months and it might encourage ‘new blood’ on to the DSA Committee.

That's good to hear ref the DSA accounts Islay.

The difference between the DSA AGM and the Dee4Life AGM is that no individual is actually a member of DSA whilst Dee4Life has a direct membership. Normally for any club all members are entitled to attend the AGM. However since DSA has no members, only affiliated cubs, so nobody really entitled as such to attend. I'd expect the board are probably inviting representatives of the clubs and in order to make it manageable invite two representatives from each club. I'd think it's probably club position holders - President, Secretary, Treasurer or the like - that would attend. Wouldn't want the prols there, they might ask awkward questions like happens at Dee4Life AGM.

[shaded]

Just because someone has had a union sponsored course on negotiating it doesn't make them a good negotiator. Just like the ones that get union sponsored HSW course and who then try to tell the company NEBOSH qualified HSE expert that they know more than them.

In case it isn't clear I'll clarify that I hate unions and don't understand anyone giving them any time of day. If Dee4L announced that they'd brought someone from a union negotiating background in to speak to JN on their behalf I'd immediately cancel my membership.

i take it you will be happy to hand back all the extra holidays and working conditions to all your previous employers that you have worked for? then get all the bairns back up the chimneys and off to work in the local factory,ffs B! i will give you one thing that in all my experience the way i see it is that alot of higher up reps and management appear very very similar,without all the hard work put in by the proper union guys in the last century and before then the workplace would be a much much darker place

[Deeranged]

i take it you will be happy to hand back all the extra holidays and working conditions to all your previous employers that you have worked for? then get all the bairns back up the chimneys and off to work in the local factory,ffs B! i will give you one thing that in all my experience the way i see it is that alot of higher up reps and management appear very very similar,without all the hard work put in by the proper union guys in the last century and before then the workplace would be a much much darker place

You're comparing the 21st century working conditions with 19th century conditions there. The unions didn't create the technology that could make the workplace better however it was management that provided the investment to utilise it.

You've no idea of my work history but I'll tell you I'm 62, have always worked since leaving school (bar three weeks between leaving the RAF and starting a new job) at 16 and I've worked for three years total in a workplace that had union representation. During that three years conditions on the shop floor worsened due to the insistence on collective bargaining which resulted in less competent workers earning the same as more competent workers, this in turn resulted in less work being done done because the more competent workers refused to carry the less competent ones. I got tae feck out of there at the first opportunity I can tell you.

[shaded]

You're comparing the 21st century working conditions with 19th century conditions there. The unions didn't create the technology that could make the workplace better however it was management that provided the investment to utilise it.

You've no idea of my work history but I'll tell you I'm 62, have always worked since leaving school (bar three weeks between leaving the RAF and starting a new job) at 16 and I've worked for three years total in a workplace that had union representation. During that three years conditions on the shop floor worsened due to the insistence on collective bargaining which resulted in less competent workers earning the same as more competent workers, this in turn resulted in less work being done done because the more competent workers refused to carry the less competent ones. I got tae feck out of there at the first opportunity I can tell you.

ironically il be 62 this year also
i too have worked since leaving school
1st 2 years were in the office at sidlaw,no union to speak off
then at a transport firm for 2 years where i got done over and was introduced to Harry McLevy,of the aeu who not only got me my job back but also learned me alot of what is still with me today,
believe me and i hope you will agree that without guys like him there would still be a chance we would still still be getting dragged into machinery by the hair as was the case in the 19th century.

however whilst in the cwu the majority of reps were spot on there was a few sewer rats who wouldv have drank their own piss before putting out a fire,on that front i wish to say our resident on here cwu guy was worth his weight in gold and to this day goes out his way to try and make a difference,and thats a fact

as i said up above B i agree once the union ladder gets climbed above a certain level then in some cases values go straight oot the windee unfortunately