O/T And we wonder why we trust Starmer

[frogmiller]

What of her?

Who is she married to?

Obviously no one will influenced by their spouse.

[frogmiller]

Surrounded by nato? They are pretty much surrounded by their former ussr countries electing to join nato anyway, so if those countries, as independent nations, be allowed to do so, why can't Ukraine be allowed to do so? Since when has any independent nation been prevented from pursuing its own interest simply because its neighbour doesn't like it? No-one has really answered this. You want to have a go?

From my memory, the Minsk agreements were very poor documents that could be read in any way the reader chooses, and indeed it proved to be quite useless in resolving the conflict which incidentally was preceded by Russia's initial invasion in 2014. You want to have a go at telling me why Russia did this, as it came before the Minsk agreements?

You can?t join NATO if there is an on going conflict in your country.

Putin was clever?

[howdydoo]

Since when has any independent nation been prevented from pursuing its own interest simply because its neighbour doesn't like it? No-one has really answered this. You want to have a go?

Many times. It's called war.

Let the negotiations take a year but FFS stop the killing now.

The US public don't have the appetite for this war and Trump can do what he likes. Pointless criticising him like Zelensky and European leaders are doing. They are playing into Putins hands.

Putin doesn't care about sacrificing his soldiers and Trump has no intention of overseeing any US soldier losing 1 drop of blood.

Who's going to fight Putin with Ukraine? Are we happy our young people could be potentially sacrificed and killed?

[ragingpup]

Many times. It's called war.

Let the negotiations take a year but FFS stop the killing now.

The US public don't have the appetite for this war and Trump can do what he likes. Pointless criticising him like Zelensky and European leaders are doing. They are playing into Putins hands.

Putin doesn't care about sacrificing his soldiers and Trump has no intention of overseeing any US soldier losing 1 drop of blood.

Who's going to fight Putin with Ukraine? Are we happy our young people could be potentially sacrificed and killed?

I don't think anyone is happy about it and hopefully joined up European opposition allies can join with trump in pursuading Putin to withdraw from Ukraine, so it won't come to it. Seems to me if one nation invades another, we either join together using collective armed forces to meet the force with opposition, or we just look away and allow a nation to be taken by force in part at first but history tells us that such manouvres don't end there. We'll have to disagree, I think Europe should collectively stand up to Putin, and to be honest Russia's military capabilities are not strong, struggling even to hold onto what it has against the Ukranian forces. I understand the argument against it but I think the 1939 comparison holds as does the reason NATO was formed - if a democratic nation is invaded, collective force should be used to overcome it to avoid it escalating further.

[ragingpup]

You can?t join NATO if there is an on going conflict in your country.

Putin was clever?

Clever yes. Justified, no.

[Eternal Optimist]

Surrounded by nato? They are pretty much surrounded by their former ussr countries electing to join nato anyway, so if those countries, as independent nations, be allowed to do so, why can't Ukraine be allowed to do so? Since when has any independent nation been prevented from pursuing its own interest simply because its neighbour doesn't like it? No-one has really answered this. You want to have a go?

From my memory, the Minsk agreements were very poor documents that could be read in any way the reader chooses, and indeed it proved to be quite useless in resolving the conflict which incidentally was preceded by Russia's initial invasion in 2014. You want to have a go at telling me why Russia did this, as it came before the Minsk agreements?

A great synopsis of the message from the mainstream media.

Sadly, Putin doesn't see it that way. And I don't blame him.

[ragingpup]

A great synopsis of the message from the mainstream media.

Sadly, Putin doesn't see it that way. And I don't blame him.

You don't seem to explain much about the way you see it, with links to your own sources. Why is that?

[Steve Miller]

If only we had a leader like Trump. What an inspiring speech tonight. Hope comrade Kier was watching and quivering.

The fact that you can't even spell S-man's name illuminates your stupidity like a lampstand. Go move to the Great Satan and worship your orange fat globule. Few will follow.

[Eternal Optimist]

You don't seem to explain much about the way you see it, with links to your own sources. Why is that?

In this situation, it makes sod all difference how I - and the rest of us, including top WEF puppet Zelensky - see it.*

What matters is how Putin and Trump see it.

*Include the EU in that, which is why they're currently doing excellent pantomime performance politics in pretending they have the slightest bit of control here. They don't. Especially that prize bell-end Farmer Harmer Starmer.

[Steve Miller]

I don't think anyone is happy about it and hopefully joined up European opposition allies can join with trump in pursuading Putin to withdraw from Ukraine, so it won't come to it. Seems to me if one nation invades another, we either join together using collective armed forces to meet the force with opposition, or we just look away and allow a nation to be taken by force in part at first but history tells us that such manouvres don't end there. We'll have to disagree, I think Europe should collectively stand up to Putin, and to be honest Russia's military capabilities are not strong, struggling even to hold onto what it has against the Ukranian forces. I understand the argument against it but I think the 1939 comparison holds as does the reason NATO was formed - if a democratic nation is invaded, collective force should be used to overcome it to avoid it escalating further.

I stand with you absolutely. The shower on here make it easy to see how WWII happened. Gutless, worthless self-service.
I was and am an absolute Brexiteer (based on migration policy primarily).
But I believe we MUST join a cohesive Europe on this.
I am absolutely not minded to accept two lunatic dictators deciding the future for all of us and this is the thin end of the thickest wedge (well, forgetting some on here).
Read Sholokov's Don novels if you want to understand the relationship of Ukraine and Russia. Wonderful stuff. Start with And Quiet Flows The Don.