O/T:- Trump Presidency 2.0 [hic sunt dracones]

[BigFatPie]

In the Le Pen case I would say quite a lot hinges on the sentence "this practice was apparently widely used by other French political parties". If it was then I would be inclined to agree with you that she has been unfairly treated. Have you got a source for that?

Perhaps he could give examples of the heavy handed sentences he thinks were dished out after the riots while hes at it.

If far right politicians dont want to be treated like criminals it might be an idea to stop committing crimes. A revolutionary concept I know.

[Jampie]

I'm seeing the "Right" abandon its "law and order" focus completely and repeatedly raising up candidates marred by blatantly criminal conduct. To be clear I'm seeing this in the USA, not Australia. I don't know enough about French or UK politics to meaningfully contribute about those. But I do know Le Pen has ties to Putin, so removing her from the board will benefit France and the EU from that perspective.

I'm trying to imagine Peter Dutton (Australia's current right wing leader) committing crimes and his party supporting him and I just can't even imagine it happening. So to be fair this doesn't seem like a global issue to me.

Trump was found guilty in a court of law of criminal fraud. That's not a "left wing" thing or a "right wing" thing, or a front wing or a back wing. That's just a crime. The kind of crime that disqualifies you from working for a bank let alone being responsible for 100% of the spending of the largest government budget on earth. I also looked into the other charges against him and examined what US legal experts had to say on them - if they'd gone to court he would've been in trouble far worse than a fraud conviction.

The fact that the US "right" has such a huge double standard on this issue honestly disgusts me. If any democrat presidential candidate had a fraud conviction we'd never hear the end of it (and frankly the left there would ditch them like a burning bag of poo), but they turned out in droves to vote for Trump.

[BigFatPie]

The fact that the US "right" has such a huge double standard on this issue honestly disgusts me. If any democrat presidential candidate had a fraud conviction we'd never hear the end of it (and frankly the left there would ditch them like a burning bag of poo), but they turned out in droves to vote for Trump.

Not forgetting that they were desperate to lock Hilary Clinton up for emails while then being perfectly fine with top officials in their own administration sharing military intelligence on a chat group.

[drillerpie]

I'm seeing the "Right" abandon its "law and order" focus completely and repeatedly raising up candidates marred by blatantly criminal conduct. To be clear I'm seeing this in the USA, not Australia. I don't know enough about French or UK politics to meaningfully contribute about those. But I do know Le Pen has ties to Putin, so removing her from the board will benefit France and the EU from that perspective.

I'm trying to imagine Peter Dutton (Australia's current right wing leader) committing crimes and his party supporting him and I just can't even imagine it happening. So to be fair this doesn't seem like a global issue to me.

Trump was found guilty in a court of law of criminal fraud. That's not a "left wing" thing or a "right wing" thing, or a front wing or a back wing. That's just a crime. The kind of crime that disqualifies you from working for a bank let alone being responsible for 100% of the spending of the largest government budget on earth. I also looked into the other charges against him and examined what US legal experts had to say on them - if they'd gone to court he would've been in trouble far worse than a fraud conviction.

The fact that the US "right" has such a huge double standard on this issue honestly disgusts me. If any democrat presidential candidate had a fraud conviction we'd never hear the end of it (and frankly the left there would ditch them like a burning bag of poo), but they turned out in droves to vote for Trump.

Yeah it's worth distinguishing MAGA from old fashioned right. They are two different things.

I'm sure Trump did fraudulently exaggerate the size of his property but I don't know why they went after him on that. I don't think it's a game changer for people. Personally I would've followed up on him putting the heat on election officials to 'find him' 10000 votes in Georgia, but what do I know.

I agree with your post though. It's predictably becoming a pay for play free for all. A few days ago he pardoned someone sent to prison for securities fraud (ripping off investors in his company) which is unusual in itself, but it turns out that person's wife made a large donation to Trump. Now they are sending Musk to gut the SEC (the body that investigates wrongdoing in the stock market which is already woefully underfunded and lacking powers) presumably because the aim is to have rich fraudsters do whatever they want without the inconvenience of getting convicted and then having to get a pardon. Or to put it another way, 'deregulation'.

Unless you have a 7 or 8 figure net worth and no moral compass I can't understand why you would want these people in power. I mean yeah get rid of OTT political correctness but not like this.

[Jampie]

What trump was actually convicted of was falsifying records to hide the illegal payments he made for keeping Stormy Daniels quiet. The actual payments are a breach of federal law, but the fraud was to cover it up. These payments influenced the election for his first win, so not exactly a small thing. He won that election with a margin of 70,000 votes over a population of 300+ million. One more scandal probably would've lost it for him. This is a big deal.

The fact that he lied about the value of his properties constantly is also very well documented but to my knowledge he's never been charged for it, although it, too, is criminal fraud and the evidence has been in the public domain since at least 2018 when Maddow published it.

As for the "real" right vs. the maga right? I don't believe the "real" right have any power in the US anymore. The current republican party have nothing to do with the one that put Reagan or Bush Sr forward. These guys don't believe in (or for that matter even understand) international trade, free markets, rule of law, tradition or christian values. Name a single tradition Trump upholds? A single christian value?

Nowadays in the USA the mainstream democrats are the conservatives - actually caring about traditions and wanting to maintain the status quo. Republicans have become the "burn it all down" mad radicals. It looks to me like they're turning the US into an oligarch-run authoritarian regime like Russia. You only need to glance at Russia over the last 30 years to know how absolutely terrible that idea is.

[drillerpie]

What trump was actually convicted of was falsifying records to hide the illegal payments he made for keeping Stormy Daniels quiet. The actual payments are a breach of federal law, but the fraud was to cover it up. These payments influenced the election for his first win, so not exactly a small thing. He won that election with a margin of 70,000 votes over a population of 300+ million. One more scandal probably would've lost it for him. This is a big deal.

The fact that he lied about the value of his properties constantly is also very well documented but to my knowledge he's never been charged for it, although it, too, is criminal fraud and the evidence has been in the public domain since at least 2018 when Maddow published it.

As for the "real" right vs. the maga right? I don't believe the "real" right have any power in the US anymore. The current republican party have nothing to do with the one that put Reagan or Bush Sr forward. These guys don't believe in (or for that matter even understand) international trade, free markets, rule of law, tradition or christian values. Name a single tradition Trump upholds? A single christian value?

Nowadays in the USA the mainstream democrats are the conservatives - actually caring about traditions and wanting to maintain the status quo. Republicans have become the "burn it all down" mad radicals. It looks to me like they're turning the US into an oligarch-run authoritarian regime like Russia. You only need to glance at Russia over the last 30 years to know how absolutely terrible that idea is.

I think the last trial was for the property values but may be wrong. I don't think people vote for him because they think he's a Christian, they vote for him knowing full well who he is but knowing that as a transaction in return for their votes he will uphold certain policies they want. Putting people in central american giga prisons without a trial is not really a Christian thing to do but that's a whole other conversation. My point is not that he won't uphold parts of the bargain, but that it will come at a hell of a price.

[andy6025]

My take is slightly different.

To me the Dems and and GOP in the US are almost the exact same party; the uniparty, or the war party.

As such, people did not vote FOR Trump so much as they voted against the uniparty. Trump presents himself as a Washington outsider. His appeal is that he claims he will take on the traditional corruption of Washington and shut it down. He also presents a ?common sense? view on things like identity politics which to many Americans has been taken over by blue haired fanatics that want school children the option to p?ss in litter boxes and provide puberty blockers to minors. He also speaks about significantly reducing foreign aid, making Europeans pay ?their fair share? and ending support for unpopular wars.

This appeal is partly because, to an increasing number of Americans who are now in the majority, the MSM is no longer a reliable source of information. They see it as having an agenda, and a common viewpoint is that they will twist facts or outright lie in order to have people believe whatever the ?elites? want them to think. As such, Trump appears refreshing in that he will say and admit to many problems in America that the rest of the uniparty will not touch with a barge poll.

In short, for many a vote for Trump was more of a punishment to the Dems, whom I am sure we all can agree, learned nothing.

Personally I would not have voted for Trump - if I had the right, I would have voted Jill Stein. But I can certainly see his appeal as a possible lesser evil over the democrats, at least on some of his campaign issues. Whether he turns out to be any less of an evil by the end of his term, only time will tell.

[Old_pie]

So Musk says America is a land of Freedom and Opportunity and success should be a function of hardwork and talent and nothing else.

Well, a few cheques for a million dollars is something else in my book, and even AI can come up with leadership requiring ' integrity, empathy, accountability, confidence, resilience, and the ability to communicate effectively, inspire others, and empower their team, while also being self-aware and possessing a clear vision. '

I don't think team Musk and Trump tick too many of those boxes.

Anyhow, in Musk's own words, the Wisconsin Supreme court election race is 'critical to civilization' and it seems that civilisation won.

[i961pie]

I said in a earlier post that now would be a good time for China to invade Taiwan with America looking weak and appeasing Putin. Well they are increasing drills around Taiwan and calling their leader a warmonger, Could that he an excuse for them to act. And if they did what would Trumps reaction be?

[M0ufMk3]

I said in a earlier post that now would be a good time for China to invade Taiwan with America looking weak and appeasing Putin. Well they are increasing drills around Taiwan and calling their leader a warmonger, Could that he an excuse for them to act. And if they did what would Trumps reaction be?

If Trump is to be consistent then he would join in with China in giving Taiwan a kicking looking to share some spoils. He's a modern economic imperialist and old fashioned bully.

He needs to be careful with China, which may well be in a position of relative strength given the levels of US debt they hold, although he could always test whether his micro-tactic of declaring bankruptcy works on a macro scale (it doesn't of course).