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After last night's elections do you think it could be the end of Two party politics.
Looking at the West of England Mayoral election Labour won with 51,000 votes but Reform got 45,000
Greens 41,000 Conservatives 34,000 and Lib Dems 28,000. If that carried into a general election we could have a 5 party system. Reform the one which seem to be in the ascendancy, Conservatives getting thrashed but Labour looking over their shoulders after only 10 months in charge.
Last edited by SwalePie; 02-05-2025 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Fixed off topic prefix
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Maybe, but the last election proved once again that number of votes and number of seats are two very different things. The First Past the Post system is designed to maintain the status quo. That said, we do seem to be entering a new era of politics where anything seems possible.
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Pretty accurate description of what's happening. I think we really need a new electoral system to reflect this new reality. Just in the mayoral election you described that's a lot of people without representation. That's OK for a mayoral election - you can only have one mayor - but for a general election that's really not good.Originally Posted by i961pie
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The two-party system under FPTP is hard to budge, but it can collapse or evolve and this is what's about to happen.
The long-term trend is downwards for tories and labour....if it ever falls to sub-30% for both there could be a collapse and an very unpredictable outcome in terms of seats
A Labour-Tory system can't go on for ever, it's amazing that it's lasted nearly 100 years (thanks in large part to the media which has presented them to the electorate as the only real choices).
I don't think Farage wants to replace the tories though. He could obliterate them in 2029. But I think he'll form a new pact with them, he's a public school former tory after all.
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We've been trapped into the system by the conundrum that the party in power, or close to power, always thinks that FPTP serves their interest.
I don't think the move towards something fairer is ever going to come from the right. Perhaps one day the labour membership (which I believe backs PR) can gain control of the party, join Lib_Dems & Greens, and then it would mean winning power to legislate it
We may never see it in our lifetimes, and then again you never know...
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The trouble is that with PR you will always get a government isn't what people voted for, some shady marriage of convenience, like Macron in France when he refused to recognise the fact both Le Pen and Melenchon got more votes than him.
In this Bristol mayoral election, Labour and the Greens (the Left) together outscored Reform and the Tories (the Right), with the wishy washy Liberals (the 'Centre') presumably sitting on the fence, so people more or less got what they wanted.
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From memory so may be wrong, Macron is the president and the elections you're referring to were parliamentary elections I think? So their parliament is made up proportionally according to how people voted. He stays as president as he won the last presidential election but can't get anything done unless he convinces parliament. Seems fair enough to me.
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If Farrago wants PR now after these results there is no doubt the media will fully amplify that message.
Maybe we could have a question time special.
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As Question Time usually has a fairly liberal sprinkling of Labour apparatchiks, perhaps those potential participants might want to reflect on their historical policy, and leave the BBC to do something else .
You may, or may not , recall that at the Labour Party Conference in September 2022, delegates from CLPs, and trade unions voted overwhelmingly in favour of adopting proportional representation. The motion was not binding on the party leadership, but did commit the party to including PR in its election manifesto.
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Federal election in Australia tomorrow. Senate is PR ranked choice (we call it preferential which is a stupid term for it really), lower house is ranked choice.
It's an excellent system, I wouldn't change it, but it doesn't really solve the underlying problem that there's no party with a real plan to deal with any of the issues. Still, it lets me somewhat vote on issues by preferring minor parties and/or independents who have views I agree with over and above the major parties, without sacrificing my choice between the major parties.
Like I can vote our "left" and "right" wing parties last and second last, but still show a preference between them this way. If I lived anywhere else I would absolutely be saying we should move over to this system. Although I can imagine it's difficult for Britain or the US to be saying "let's do what the aussies do!"
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