Retained list

[MadAmster]

We should also remember that Wash was brought in on a free as we weren't allowed to pay transfer fees at the time. Many of the "free agents" are either washed up or injury prone. In Wash's case it might be both.

[swaledale]

Let?s not forget that Conor Washington has cost the club 6500 GBP PW (338,000 PA). I understand the need to protect contracts and that he is not well paid by Salah standards but he?s been a complete waste of money imo and a very, very bad signing at the worst possible time.

I really hope the lesson has been learned that buying injury prone players on the cheap is false economy.

No player, however capable, is worth buying if they?re going to spend more time on the treatment table than on the pitch, again imo.

P.S. 29/30 appearances over two seasons, many incomplete, is not a great return from Elder.
Think Barks is a decent L1 player, which tbf is what he was bought as, nothing more.
Happy to keep NML?never a captain, which did him no favours in the first six months of last season, but a good impact sub.
For Ward read Washington. Both have ability, but it?s no use without availability.

There is no disputing he hasn't really performed for the club, but as MA rightly points out, at the time of his acquisition Derby couldn't pay transfer fees and had a very limited budget. For every McGoldrick who turns out better than expected, there will always be a Washington who doesn't, every club signs players that don't perform for whatever reason, at least we didn't pay a fee!

It wasn't an economy measure to get players in free, it was a case of having to, due to the financial restrictions at the time. When one can only shop in the bargain basement, its hardly surprising that one or two will not be up to standard, after all Derby have shelled out millions before now on players that have proven no better than Washington!

Whilst I understand the sentiment about "injury prone" players RA, where does one draw the line? A player that has had injuries isn't necessarily going to suffer a run of injuries again, equally a player may get injured immediately after signing with no prior history and never fully recover. Or you could get a quality player at a bargain price, think Seth Johnson! So dismissing such players can be a mistake.

In any case, we are now in a position where we should have more choice over players and having survived as a championship team ought to be attractive, though it has been pointed out that Birmingham and Wrexham are coming up with money to spend, so it will not be easy.

[ramAnag]

Bargains compared with Anya

Indeed! 28000 GBP per week for four seasons and he didn’t make an appearance in the last two. But that was then…this is now.

[ramAnag]

There is no disputing he hasn't really performed for the club, but as MA rightly points out, at the time of his acquisition Derby couldn't pay transfer fees and had a very limited budget. For every McGoldrick who turns out better than expected, there will always be a Washington who doesn't, every club signs players that don't perform for whatever reason, at least we didn't pay a fee!

It wasn't an economy measure to get players in free, it was a case of having to, due to the financial restrictions at the time. When one can only shop in the bargain basement, its hardly surprising that one or two will not be up to standard, after all Derby have shelled out millions before now on players that have proven no better than Washington!

Whilst I understand the sentiment about "injury prone" players RA, where does one draw the line? A player that has had injuries isn't necessarily going to suffer a run of injuries again, equally a player may get injured immediately after signing with no prior history and never fully recover. Or you could get a quality player at a bargain price, think Seth Johnson! So dismissing such players can be a mistake.

In any case, we are now in a position where we should have more choice over players and having survived as a championship team ought to be attractive, though it has been pointed out that Birmingham and Wrexham are coming up with money to spend, so it will not be easy.

‘Hasn’t really performed’…must be one of your greatest understatements.

We don’t completely agree on this one. I totally ‘get’ the bargain basement thing but there have just been too many wasteful signings of ‘broken’ players in my book.
I don’t include Nelson because he experienced a one off knee injury but has still provided value for money and one and and half (out of two) seasons of being an ever available/ever present, but, to my way of thinking, Washington, Ward, Ozoh, Nyambe, Waghorn, Bradley and Elder have all been poor signings because of their lack of availability.
I even really rate Nyambe, Ozoh and Elder but it’s no use being good if players play a couple of matches and then miss months of the season.
In all walks of life/employment one’s ‘attendance record’ is crucially important imo and that is just the same with footballers.
I’d like to see some protection for clubs giving ‘injury prone’ players a second chance so that some sort of ‘pay as you play’ contract kicks in at some point ensuring players are able to live comfortably but protecting clubs from having to fork out astronomical salaries for, in Washington and Anya’s cases, doing virtually nothing.

[swaledale]

?‘Hasn?’t really performed?’?…must be one of your greatest understatements.

We don?’t completely agree on this one. I totally ?‘get?’ the bargain basement thing but there have just been too many wasteful signings of ?‘broken?’ players in my book.
I don?’t include Nelson because he experienced a one off knee injury but has still provided value for money and one and and half (out of two) seasons of being an ever available/ever present, but, to my way of thinking, Washington, Ward, Ozoh, Nyambe, Waghorn, Bradley and Elder have all been poor signings because of their lack of availability.
I even really rate Nyambe, Ozoh and Elder but it?’s no use being good if players play a couple of matches and then miss months of the season.
In all walks of life/employment one?’s ?‘attendance record?’ is crucially important imo and that is just the same with footballers.
I?’d like to see some protection for clubs giving ?‘injury prone?’ players a second chance so that some sort of ?‘pay as you play?’ contract kicks in at some point ensuring players are able to live comfortably but protecting clubs from having to fork out astronomical salaries for, in Washington and Anya?’s cases, doing virtually nothing.

The disagreement is only on whether it was possible to not sign the players we did, or whether they were the "best" available" at a price we could afford. I suspect the latter, you think we might have avoided them and signed others, without knowing the ins and outs one can't be sure. Hindsight of course suggests certain players have not been a success or contributed as much as one might like, but then Waghorn did score 7 goals and a few assists in our promotion season, so its perhaps harsh to say he didn't make a contribution, if only half of those goals got us pts it resulted in promotion that the club benefitted from then he earned his salary. It is after all a team game.

Where I think your wrong, is the equivalence of the football player to a "normal employee" there is no comparison in reality. my reasoning is

1. Your average employee is rarely in a position whereby an injury incurred during their employment could end their career in that field.

2. A players career is precarious, they want to play but loss of form, injury not fitting in with the managers tactics etc. etc. can mean that at anytime their career stalls.

3. A player is expected to be available 7 days a week for 10 months of the year, unlike an average employee

4. I don't disagree that the wages paid to players seem big compared to what you or I have earned, but that hasn't always been the case and for every Ronaldo there is a Washington who has earned comparatively small sums in his field. No player is going to sign a pay to play contract unless he there is no other choice and clubs factor injuries etc. into their budgets and player recruitment. Why should they, one overlooks the effort and sacrifice they have made since a very young age to even make the grade in L1. Players contracts are a basic salary, then clauses which cover appearance fees, clean sheet, goal bonus and of course a bonus for promotion etc. A player who doesn't play doesn't get those additional fees, the base salary is determined by what is being paid by clubs for certain players, if one is injury prone then fewer clubs will be interested, hence its clubs with a limited transfer and salary budget who may take a gamble and sign them.

Its a complex issue, but no "normal employer" takes on staff with the expectation that a certain percentage will not be used for reasons which can include injury, loss of form or simply the manager doesn't like them, or they are back ups signed to fill a place as required.

[ramAnag]

The disagreement is only on whether it was possible to not sign the players we did, or whether they were the "best" available" at a price we could afford. I suspect the latter, you think we might have avoided them and signed others, without knowing the ins and outs one can't be sure. Hindsight of course suggests certain players have not been a success or contributed as much as one might like, but then Waghorn did score 7 goals and a few assists in our promotion season, so its perhaps harsh to say he didn't make a contribution, if only half of those goals got us pts it resulted in promotion that the club benefitted from then he earned his salary. It is after all a team game.

Where I think your wrong, is the equivalence of the football player to a "normal employee" there is no comparison in reality. my reasoning is

1. Your average employee is rarely in a position whereby an injury incurred during their employment could end their career in that field.

2. A players career is precarious, they want to play but loss of form, injury not fitting in with the managers tactics etc. etc. can mean that at anytime their career stalls.

3. A player is expected to be available 7 days a week for 10 months of the year, unlike an average employee

4. I don't disagree that the wages paid to players seem big compared to what you or I have earned, but that hasn't always been the case and for every Ronaldo there is a Washington who has earned comparatively small sums in his field. No player is going to sign a pay to play contract unless he there is no other choice and clubs factor injuries etc. into their budgets and player recruitment. Why should they, one overlooks the effort and sacrifice they have made since a very young age to even make the grade in L1. Players contracts are a basic salary, then clauses which cover appearance fees, clean sheet, goal bonus and of course a bonus for promotion etc. A player who doesn't play doesn't get those additional fees, the base salary is determined by what is being paid by clubs for certain players, if one is injury prone then fewer clubs will be interested, hence its clubs with a limited transfer and salary budget who may take a gamble and sign them.

Its a complex issue, but no "normal employer" takes on staff with the expectation that a certain percentage will not be used for reasons which can include injury, loss of form or simply the manager doesn't like them, or they are back ups signed to fill a place as required.

1. Can only agree.
2. Not sure how different that is from many walks of life.
3. 7 days a week for ten months of the year is, I think, overstating it, at least on the ‘days’ front.
4. Take your point, but to take the example of Washington - he’s an average ‘journeyman pro footballer’ who earned as much in a fortnight never playing for even a minute of last season as I did in a whole year as a Headteacher 15 years or so ago. Can that be right?

[Andy_Faber]

Bargains compared with Anya

Anya must be the absolute low point of our acquisitions.

[SithHappens]

Even very average, or below average players, can be very wealthy. Recently released Mason Bennett is reportedly worth around 1.8 million, for what?, being a below average player who scored 1 worldy and had that 1 ok season under lampard. Done very little since.

Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't sign for another club now as can't see him getting much of a deal anywhere.

What's the going rate at alfreton town?

[SithHappens]

Anya must be the absolute low point of our acquisitions.

I could never quite work it out as mostly he was available and was a fairly decent player.

Assume there was appearance based add ons which limited his opportunities, but as far as I know he didn't sign elsewhere when he left us

[Ramshank72]

Signing a player that you can't afford to play is definitely down there as a low point. At least Claude Davis actually spend minutes on the pitch, even if he may as well not have been