Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

There's two problems with that logic, which by the way I agree with. 1, He/they won't, 2. 'the problem' you refer to isn't actually the problem. Like GP I've been in the company of people with an entrenched view on this, they regard 'the boats' as merely increasing the bigger 'problem' and have successively voted Brexit/Conservative/Conservative/Labour in the hope it will be resolved, and will vote Reform next time if it is not

Out of interest, not antagonism, what are you suggesting ‘people with an entrenched view’ regard as the ‘bigger problem’?

[swaledale]

Out of interest, not antagonism, what are you suggesting ‘people with an entrenched view’ regard as the ‘bigger problem’?

Ah now your asking a question which is multi faceted RA! if one breaks it down a little, then broadly speaking there are those who are for whatever reason, basically xenophobic, racist and to judge from recent research misogynistic and prone to abusing women and children, who see the problem as immigration end of.

There are those who feel let down, fed up with their circumstances in life, feel mistreated by governments over lack of services and look for a simple answer or scapegoat for their troubles and happen upon immigration as a handy reason. The so called "red wall" areas are a case in point, in many the proportion of the population that are not white British is 1% or less, yet still they claim lack of access to health, dentists, housing etc. etc. is down to immigration. Clacton being a prima facia example of this.

Then you have the "respectable middle class" generally over 50 age group who aren't necessarily racist or xenophobic in nature, but feel uncomfortable with the changes in society (often not actually directly affecting them), have a rose tinted view of what life was life back in those "good old" days and somehow ascribe immigration as one of the main reasons for this, rather than the inevitable evolution of change that happens and always has done, albeit such change seems to happen at a faster pace these days.

Add into the mix a 24hr news cycle with an over emphasis on the ethnicity of perpetrators of crimes, a constant drip feed of misinformation and falsehoods and really very little attempt to present a realistic balanced view of the issue and an agenda is being pushed for personal and political reasons.

As an example of the latter, a child abuse grooming gang in Rotherham was recently tried and sentenced, yet there were no headlines in the Daily fail, or GBeebies about it. Why? Because the members were all white British! It merited a footnote if it was reported at all.

[Andy_Faber]

As an example of the latter, a child abuse grooming gang in Rotherham was recently tried and sentenced, yet there were no headlines in the Daily fail, or GBeebies about it. Why? Because the members were all white British! It merited a footnote if it was reported at all.

I'm struggling to find evidence of that Swale, there are two isolated 'lone wolf' cases, but nothing coming up regarding a 'white British' gang. Provide a link if you would

[Andy_Faber]

Out of interest, not antagonism, what are you suggesting ‘people with an entrenched view’ regard as the ‘bigger problem’?

Before I respond, PLEASE NOTE this is an observation not an opinion, albeit its based on a pretty large sample and over nearly two decades, the bigger problem being 'the rise of Islam' with a side order of 'the apparent encouragement of/failure to stop it by 'the powers that be''

[ramAnag]

Before I respond, PLEASE NOTE this is an observation not an opinion, albeit its based on a pretty large sample and over nearly two decades, the bigger problem being 'the rise of Islam' with a side order of 'the apparent encouragement of/failure to stop it by 'the powers that be''

I appreciate it’s only an observation, but I really don’t understand it. As you know I have little time for any organised religion and I accept that there are more Muslims in the country with more high profile places of worship than there were 15, 20, 50 years ago but why do people find it a ‘problem’?

[Andy_Faber]

I appreciate it's only an observation, but I really don't understand it. As you know I have little time for any organised religion and I accept that there are more Muslims in the country with more high profile places of worship than there were 15, 20, 50 years ago but why do people find it a 'problem''

Because 'people' see a) the accelerating growth of muslims as a percentage of the population (immigration,higher birth/lower death rate) b) that the promised nirvana of multiculturalism has not only failed but never intended to be even tried, leading to things such as the no go zones referred to by MA and c) a feeling that 'the authorities' (govt, police, public bodies, mainstream broadcasters) are 'on their side'. 'People' constantly cite the grooming gang scandals as examples of c)

The worrying thing (for you as a liberal/idealist for example) is that the genie is back out of the bottle, those who've kept their (justified or not) frustrations/ prejudices to themselves are now feeling emboldened to voice them out loud - see Sith's earlier comment

[ramAnag]

Because 'people' see a) the accelerating growth of muslims as a percentage of the population (immigration,higher birth/lower death rate) b) that the promised nirvana of multiculturalism has not only failed but never intended to be even tried, leading to things such as the no go zones referred to by MA and c) a feeling that 'the authorities' (govt, police, public bodies, mainstream broadcasters) are 'on their side'. 'People' constantly cite the grooming gang scandals as examples of c)

The worrying thing (for you as a liberal/idealist for example) is that the genie is back out of the bottle, those who've kept their (justified or not) frustrations/ prejudices to themselves are now feeling emboldened to voice them out loud - see Sith's earlier comment

Well that’s the first time I’ve seen lower death rate cited as a concern and I’m unsure what you mean by Sith’s earlier comment.

I’m sure Farage has empowered some with his rabble rousing, it is after all the source of his wealth and infamy, however I’ve never noticed the likes of you, Tricky and GP being particularly reticent on here as regards your views on migrants and Muslims and I honestly don’t think it’s about sides. It’s about fairness. You were quick to raise the case of the poor girl who’d been bullied because of her acne and rightly so, but to me most of the comments on here and elsewhere driven by racism and intolerance are just another form of bullying.

[Andy_Faber]

Well that’s the first time I’ve seen lower death rate cited as a concern and I’m unsure what you mean by Sith’s earlier comment.

I’m sure Farage has empowered some with his rabble rousing, it is after all the source of his wealth and infamy, however I’ve never noticed the likes of you, Tricky and GP being particularly reticent on here as regards your views on migrants and Muslims and I honestly don’t think it’s about sides. It’s about fairness. You were quick to raise the case of the poor girl who’d been bullied because of her acne and rightly so, but to me most of the comments on here and elsewhere driven by racism and intolerance are just another form of bullying.

You missed out MA. His post yesterday expressed similar concerns to many expressed here and elsewhere in the past, are you Suggesting MA is a racist? If not, why suggest others with considered views are?

[ramAnag]

You missed out MA. His post yesterday expressed similar concerns to many expressed here and elsewhere in the past, are you Suggesting MA is a racist? If not, why suggest others with considered views are?

Hold on. Who’s called who a racist? MA expressed concerns which personally I was surprised by and don’t agree with but he’s no racist. Neither have I suggested that you are, although your concerns about there being too many Asian/black presenters are very dubious imo. Tricky, I suspect, has a number of more extreme and racist tendencies and I think GP’s comments about sinking boats were unacceptable, indeed someone (MA I think) suggested you should remove them, but I repeat, I have called no one a racist.

I’ve simply suggested that, contrary to the myth about the removal of free speech, you three have consistently felt free to put forward opinions which you claim are somehow being censored by the various authorities. As it happens I think it is right that you should be able to, although I think Lucy Connolly’s incitement to arson and murder and GP’s comments about sinking boats cross the boundaries of decency and acceptability.

[Trickytreesreds]

Well that?s the first time I?ve seen lower death rate cited as a concern and I?m unsure what you mean by Sith?s earlier comment.

I?m sure Farage has empowered some with his rabble rousing, it is after all the source of his wealth and infamy, however I?ve never noticed the likes of you, Tricky and GP being particularly reticent on here as regards your views on migrants and Muslims and I honestly don?t think it?s about sides. It?s about fairness. You were quick to raise the case of the poor girl who?d been bullied because of her acne and rightly so, but to me most of the comments on here and elsewhere driven by racism and intolerance are just another form of bullying.

Intolerance? Interesting, when immigration has been pushing nearly 1000000 net a year and illegal immigration going through the roof? How tolerant do you expect folks to be?

I suggest you study the crime figures, the cost in benefits, the impacts on services, the impacts on housing in such a short space of time then ask yourself why folks have become ?intolerant ?.

I?ve told you before, you live in a bubble in the stix and good on yers.
But urban areas, especially the poorer areas have had enough

Politicians did this. Not Brexit or any of that bollox.

It Started under Blair, with the lowering of standards, integration of laws and a fundamental shift in political policy satisfying the world order.

Multiculturalism has failed and is a complete sham. The UK has ghettos and closed areas of communities not interested in anything but their own cultures. Muslims are the worst and bring their backward ways here. From polygamy to inter family marriage.

But Islam is an ideology that they want to live by. From women control, to observing their own religious versions of law. It?s dodgy ground.