Election Year or Fear!

[SithHappens]

Anyway, looks like Farage to outline his plans to abolish human rights today. Surely that can't be popular even amongst Reform voters.

[MadAmster]

Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

Try building a Christian Church in many Islamic countries and see how long you live once you've laid the first brick.

They don't want our ways, our Laws, our traditions. They want the UK to be the same as the country they fled from. They want Sharia Law. Not all of them, admittedly, but their numbers are growing.

Those that do arrive in the UK, legally or otherwise, should get a crash course on things their ideology accepts or even encourages that are not legal and totally unacceptable in the UK. That way, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to r*pe white UK girls and women will cease to be an excuse, possibly leading to a lighter sentence if found guilty. Allah says I can and I should also kill non believers... Not in the UK you can't.

Also let them know that serious transgressions will lead to deportation.

[swaledale]

Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

Try building a Christian Church in many Islamic countries and see how long you live once you've laid the first brick.

They don't want our ways, our Laws, our traditions. They want the UK to be the same as the country they fled from. They want Sharia Law. Not all of them, admittedly, but their numbers are growing.

Those that do arrive in the UK, legally or otherwise, should get a crash course on things their ideology accepts or even encourages that are not legal and totally unacceptable in the UK. That way, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to r*pe white UK girls and women will cease to be an excuse, possibly leading to a lighter sentence if found guilty. Allah says I can and I should also kill non believers... Not in the UK you can't.

Also let them know that serious transgressions will lead to deportation.

I'd have to disagree, yes where authoritarian governments are in charge, its very much about an Ideology, but then the same could well be said about right wing Christians such as thos ein the US and Israel.

Islam is very much a religion, it has different types and is actually more about peace than much of Christianity is. Of course its easy to forget the times when Christianity or at least a version of it was the dominant ideology that was forced on many populations of the world historically, so perhaps no surprise that there is something of a roll back, no true Muslim thinks Allah requires the killing og non believers.

Your quoting selectively about those who commit crimes, or whatever half truths are peddled by the UK media, whilst perhaps overlooking the fact that the majority of crime and especially *** crime is committed by ethnic whites. Those are the people who perhaps need educating and advising on such matters. After all 40% of those involved in riots and demonstrations supposedly to save white women and children had convictions, cautions or had contact with the police for offences involving the ***ual abuse of women and children!

The media generally report matters inaccurately, feeding ignorance and prejudice, which helps nobody.

I'm surprised that you have made such a post, it reads like a verbatim right wing white supremacist scroll, shameful IMO.

[swaledale]

It's not really religion, it's culture as much as anything. Just spend a little time in, say, London and see what it's like living in a third world country where white faces are in a minority, there are non Moslem no go areas, Moslem schools, Sharia law environment etc. This is our national capital.

Then go back to your predominantly white middle class ruralish middle England and contemplate the answer.

Then consider relative breeding rates and contemplate the future. This is why the white (predominantly) lower income / working classes are rapidly feeling sidelined in their own country.

Walk a mile in their shoes and consider. If you still retain your views, fine, you've tried to see it from a non privileged perspective - and you've got a new pair of shoes.

I've done it. And I thank **** I don't have to live in that environment

I've lived in London, I've lived in Manchester, both times in areas predominantly populated by ethnic minorities. I've found them safe, vibrant and interesting places to live, the areas where I would avoid were largely what would be called white working class areas.

I would also point out, that the areas that are so pro Reform and frothing at the mouth about immigration, like Clacton, Lincolnshire etc. aren't areas with a high ethnic minority population, so a large proportion of those doing the moaning aren't directly affected by it!

I see you have failed to answer my questions, fair enough you don't have to but that suggests your comments were not serious and indeed if you had given it some thought, the phrase Starmer has no inclination to resolve the boats issue is obviously ludicrous.

He is grappling with a problem, which is the direct result of 1. Brexit, 2. Johnson's disastrous Brexit "deal" which deliberately failed to negotiate the previous return deals that existed prior to Brexit. 3. A failure to agree to accept and process Asylum claims in France, which France offered to the Johnson Government 4. A failure to process asylum claims leaving thousands in limbo and creating the backlog 5. A failure to enforce deportation of those convicted of criminal offences or those whose Asylum claims had been refused 6. A failure to police and enforce the employment of workers with no legal right to work in the country.

But after all that and despite the hyperbole and hot air spouted by right wing media and Farage, those crossing by boats are a small percentage of migrants and the Uk take sin less asylum seekers than other European countries.

Its a smokescreen, being cleverly used by billionaires to distract those dumb enough to be distracted from their wish to reduce peoples rights, protections and be able to exert even greater control and exploit even further the average citizen of the UK.

[SithHappens]

So Uncle Niges plan is to rip up human rights legislation so we can ship immigrants off to anywhere in the world safe or not.

for shame..

[ramAnag]

I'd have to disagree, yes where authoritarian governments are in charge, its very much about an Ideology, but then the same could well be said about right wing Christians such as thos ein the US and Israel.

Islam is very much a religion, it has different types and is actually more about peace than much of Christianity is. Of course its easy to forget the times when Christianity or at least a version of it was the dominant ideology that was forced on many populations of the world historically, so perhaps no surprise that there is something of a roll back, no true Muslim thinks Allah requires the killing og non believers.

Your quoting selectively about those who commit crimes, or whatever half truths are peddled by the UK media, whilst perhaps overlooking the fact that the majority of crime and especially *** crime is committed by ethnic whites. Those are the people who perhaps need educating and advising on such matters. After all 40% of those involved in riots and demonstrations supposedly to save white women and children had convictions, cautions or had contact with the police for offences involving the ***ual abuse of women and children!

The media generally report matters inaccurately, feeding ignorance and prejudice, which helps nobody.

I'm surprised that you have made such a post, it reads like a verbatim right wing white supremacist scroll, shameful IMO.

I have to agree with the above which I think has been very well put. Very surprised at the tone of your post MA. It’s almost like you’ve been hacked. I of course don’t agree with what we might call militant Islam, but then I don’t agree with any extremist religious behaviours. Disappointed and surprised you haven’t differentiated, but it’s almost pointless entering into serious debate at the moment given the current state of the site and the likelihood of it being impossible to post again for the rest of the evening.

P.S. P.O.I. There are said to be at least 600 Christian churches in Iran.

[MadAmster]

Islam was the subject matter. Agreed, whites also commit those crimes we all abhor. I saw that as outside the scope of the ongoing discussion, hence I didn't mention it. This is, after all, an online forum and I am not going to write 2000 word essays to cover every angle etc. simply to avoid somebody having a pop because I didn't mention F or G. If we're talking A, I'll comment on A. B on B etc.

[ramAnag]

It's not really religion, it's culture as much as anything. Just spend a little time in, say, London and see what it's like living in a third world country where white faces are in a minority, there are non Moslem no go areas, Moslem schools, Sharia law environment etc. This is our national capital.

Then go back to your predominantly white middle class ruralish middle England and contemplate the answer.

Then consider relative breeding rates and contemplate the future. This is why the white (predominantly) lower income / working classes are rapidly feeling sidelined in their own country.

Walk a mile in their shoes and consider. If you still retain your views, fine, you've tried to see it from a non privileged perspective - and you've got a new pair of shoes.

I've done it. And I thank **** I don't have to live in that environment

Haven’t set foot in London for five and a half years so can’t really comment. I’m usually grateful that I don’t have to live in any urban environment be it Manchester, Oxford, Sheffield, Nottingham or New York, all of which I’ve visited more recently and regularly than London, but that has nothing at all to do with Muslims.

All the aforementioned cities have, I think, become more cosmopolitan, but not in a bad way and I’ve accepted before that I probably wouldn’t be happy to have become a minority in the street I was once brought up in, but I’m not sure who’d be to blame for that. Anyway, you’ve apparently gone and the site is doing a good impression of being permanently broken so I’ll leave it there.

[Andy_Faber]

I appreciate it's only an observation, but I really don't understand it. As you know I have little time for any organised religion and I accept that there are more Muslims in the country with more high profile places of worship than there were 15, 20, 50 years ago but why do people find it a 'problem''

Because 'people' see a) the accelerating growth of muslims as a percentage of the population (immigration,higher birth/lower death rate) b) that the promised nirvana of multiculturalism has not only failed but never intended to be even tried, leading to things such as the no go zones referred to by MA and c) a feeling that 'the authorities' (govt, police, public bodies, mainstream broadcasters) are 'on their side'. 'People' constantly cite the grooming gang scandals as examples of c)

The worrying thing (for you as a liberal/idealist for example) is that the genie is back out of the bottle, those who've kept their (justified or not) frustrations/ prejudices to themselves are now feeling emboldened to voice them out loud - see Sith's earlier comment

[ramAnag]

Because 'people' see a) the accelerating growth of muslims as a percentage of the population (immigration,higher birth/lower death rate) b) that the promised nirvana of multiculturalism has not only failed but never intended to be even tried, leading to things such as the no go zones referred to by MA and c) a feeling that 'the authorities' (govt, police, public bodies, mainstream broadcasters) are 'on their side'. 'People' constantly cite the grooming gang scandals as examples of c)

The worrying thing (for you as a liberal/idealist for example) is that the genie is back out of the bottle, those who've kept their (justified or not) frustrations/ prejudices to themselves are now feeling emboldened to voice them out loud - see Sith's earlier comment

Well that’s the first time I’ve seen lower death rate cited as a concern and I’m unsure what you mean by Sith’s earlier comment.

I’m sure Farage has empowered some with his rabble rousing, it is after all the source of his wealth and infamy, however I’ve never noticed the likes of you, Tricky and GP being particularly reticent on here as regards your views on migrants and Muslims and I honestly don’t think it’s about sides. It’s about fairness. You were quick to raise the case of the poor girl who’d been bullied because of her acne and rightly so, but to me most of the comments on here and elsewhere driven by racism and intolerance are just another form of bullying.