Sir Jim Ratcliffe Says

[Omegstrat6]

I’m sure you’ll agree Al.. i’d rather we trained recruited home grown engineers, doctors, teachers etc rather than import them. But wait didn’t you have a complaint about junior doctors asking for more pay?

I think those trying to go in those fields, and these have to be the proper smart clever types - should have their tuition fees reimbursed if say they go into becoming a doctor. Our government have been quick to always look for overseas doctors when we should be solving this issue at home. Easier said than done.
Our teachers are all working and going off to Dubai - because we don’t look after them. 14 years of tory rule.. and these lot have rebranded at the reform party who you keep parading on here. We get what’s coming our way Al. I told you so.

I find it pretty astounding that a whole fifth of our workforce are foreign born. This may be proof that the contribution of those from immigrant communities is both valuable and important to the UK but it does raise questions about our own workforce with some 22% of working age people (mostly in the younger demographic) out of work.

On one hand, those from immigrant communities are more willing to do poorer paid jobs in sectors such as agriculture, care or cleaning and on the other, we have to recruit from abroad to fill needs in sectors such as architecture, dentistry, vets, IT and doctors. Given that more young people than ever before are in higher education the question surely has to be asked why more are not entering these areas? I'd agree with Regis that we need to find ways to encourage them to enter these sectors.

At the other end of the scale, these jobs may be minimum wage and unattractive to many, but why do those from immigrant backgrounds seem to have a better work ethic in taking them than their British white counterparts (a concern raised by a House of Lords review a few years ago) who prefer to rely on benefits? Again, the government should seek better methods of encouraging people to take even minimum wage jobs rather than sitting on benefits.

[baggieal]

I find it pretty astounding that a whole fifth of our workforce are foreign born. This may be proof that the contribution of those from immigrant communities is both valuable and important to the UK but it does raise questions about our own workforce with some 22% of working age people (mostly in the younger demographic) out of work.

On one hand, those from immigrant communities are more willing to do poorer paid jobs in sectors such as agriculture, care or cleaning and on the other, we have to recruit from abroad to fill needs in sectors such as architecture, dentistry, vets, IT and doctors. Given that more young people than ever before are in higher education the question surely has to be asked why more are not entering these areas? I'd agree with Regis that we need to find ways to encourage them to enter these sectors.

At the other end of the scale, these jobs may be minimum wage and unattractive to many, but why do those from immigrant backgrounds seem to have a better work ethic in taking them than their British white counterparts (a concern raised by a House of Lords review a few years ago) who prefer to rely on benefits? Again, the government should seek better methods of encouraging people to take even minimum wage jobs rather than sitting on benefits.

Good points Omeg but your last sentence says the government should encourage but I would change that too force! Anyone who has been claiming benefits for more than six months ( except those proven to be unable ) should be forced to take a job otherwise they forfeit their benefits. In some other European countries ie Spain being one - what you pay into the system over four years enables you to take a very small percentage of benefits when there?s no work. Not paying into the system locals receive peanuts. We need to get tough! Those on benefits should not get their entitlement to that proportion of NHS contributions either towards their State Pension. The country is becoming a fkin charity!

The work ethic of most immigrants is much much greater than lazy whites for sure. If you have ever been to Dubai for example immigrants ate working on construction sites for 12/15 hours a day through choice. The alternative is nothing!

The UK is pathetically weak and even providing taxis to illegals for hospital or GP visits which is laughable in addition to laundry cleaning. Why not provide washing powder and sinks so they can wash their own clothes like the older generation did!

You will remember outside loos in many houses! I was brought up on the basis there?s no such thing as a sick day or being cold, If cold stick another jumper on FFS! At school for being naughty you received the stick - good parents then gave you further punishment and backed up the school.

The human rights act certainly needs amending!

Here we go again - Starmer being the big man on the world stage acting big. Nobody is interested until the fight begins at home!

[Omegstrat6]

Morning Regis. Honestly don?t mind where a doctor is from as long as they are qualified. I totally agree that tuition fees for medicine students should be reimbursed because what?s the incentive otherwise of five years worth of student debt. As for those student doctors protesting they are paid poorly for the skilled job they do and Streeting to think the inflationary 3.3% pay for NHS doctors was good needs a reality check when those who claim universal credit received a whopping 6.2% in most cases. I don?t blame teachers either going to Dubai - who wouldn?t! Three years of student debt to be a teacher then starting off on a crap salary of just over 30K is scandalous. I was speaking to an American teacher in the summer who was paid around 100K dollars and had his medical paid too! He nearly fell off the chair when I told him what our teachers were paid on average.

My own daughter is leaving school later this year after her A Levels and has received some fab uni offers including Kings in London but went through a rigorous process for interviews to be an apprentice with a well known top firm so great starting salary, all her professional qualifications paid for so It?s a no brainer over uni and student debt. Most uni courses are complete bollox and it annoys me that student debt is around 9% which will be to cover those students who never pay back.

Honestly feel the UK is completely broken and all the parties are full of s hite and it will get worse! Starmer now going on about our military but who will pay for the extra 3.5% required of promised GDP? People are taxed up to the eyeballs so we need to be ruthless on illegal immigration, stupid foreign aid and benefits handed out like confetti to yes mainly whites.

Hi Al. Think your daughter made a wise choice and congratulations to her on her job/ apprenticeship offer!

When I talk to some young people at work about their options I always say to bear in mind an example of a lad I knew who used to work for us several years ago. All his mates decided to go to uni but although his grades were good, he decided not to but rather work his way up to a junior management position with us before leaving to work in the (then) growing online gambling sector, helping to check that new systems met all the legal requirements. He chose not to move to their HO in London where his salary would have been much greater but remained with them in the area instead. Nonetheless, by the time all his mates left uni with no job, no car, no house and the debt of a student loan, he was already earning good money, had a nice car and was on the housing ladder. Higher educational qualifications do not guarantee you the best paid jobs-they didn't even back in the 1980s when I graduated.

I have both a niece and step grand-daughter who are both very bright, worked hard and achieved good grades, one of them getting a first at Cambridge. They both went into exceptionally well paid jobs with great career prospects but this is by no means a given. The economic outlook can change quite a bit from the time you enter uni until the time you leave and with more young people than ever now with the same qualifications competing for the same small number ofjobs their options are even more limited than they once might have been.

[baggieal]

Hi Al. Think your daughter made a wise choice and congratulations to her on her job/ apprenticeship offer!

When I talk to some young people at work about their options I always say to bear in mind an example of a lad I knew who used to work for us several years ago. All his mates decided to go to uni but although his grades were good, he decided not to but rather work his way up to a junior management position with us before leaving to work in the (then) growing online gambling sector, helping to check that new systems met all the legal requirements. He chose not to move to their HO in London where his salary would have been much greater but remained with them in the area instead. Nonetheless, by the time all his mates left uni with no job, no car, no house and the debt of a student loan, he was already earning good money, had a nice car and was on the housing ladder. Higher educational qualifications do not guarantee you the best paid jobs-they didn't even back in the 1980s when I graduated.

I have both a niece and step grand-daughter who are both very bright, worked hard and achieved good grades, one of them getting a first at Cambridge. They both went into exceptionally well paid jobs with great career prospects but this is by no means a given. The economic outlook can change quite a bit from the time you enter uni until the time you leave and with more young people than ever now with the same qualifications competing for the same small number ofjobs their options are even more limited than they once might have been.

Thanks Omeg and agree entirely. The irony is the company who my daughter has secured an apprenticeship with take many graduates from top universities like Kings and UCL. So effectively she will be professionally qualified at their expense when these grads join - no student debt and had been paid a very good salary for those four years. A complete no brainer!

Someone said won?t she miss out on ? Uni Life ? which generally is getting p issed.

You are completely right about the economic outlook changing from going to uni and in her case four years afterwards. She?s very excited and 3 months of her apprenticeship will be in New York City too!

[Leicesterbaggie]

I feel that a lot of our problems stem from the Tony Blair era when it was his ambition that 50% of the student population went on to study at university. It was obvious that to accommodate this, standards would drop. I think that I am correct in saying that in the 60?s roughly only 20% of the school population passed the 11+ and from that number only approx 5% went on to university,

It is obvious from those numbers that standards must have dropped. You only have to observe some of the ?Mickey Mouse? subjects on offer today. There are so many students now that should be nowhere near a university. Another big mistake was to basically do away with apprentiships. What better way to learn a skill than to do the job under a skilled practitioner day in and day out, and let?s face it these are the people earning good money these days.

I think that this is a contributory factor as to why so many of the younger white generation will not take on jobs that they feel are beneath them. I also blame my own profession as well. Yes, you must encourage children to be ambitious, but on the other hand be realistic as to what each individual is capable of.

[Omegstrat6]

I feel that a lot of our problems stem from the Tony Blair era when it was his ambition that 50% of the student population went on to study at university. It was obvious that to accommodate this, standards would drop. I think that I am correct in saying that in the 60?s roughly only 20% of the school population passed the 11+ and from that number only approx 5% went on to university,

It is obvious from those numbers that standards must have dropped. You only have to observe some of the ?Mickey Mouse? subjects on offer today. There are so many students now that should be nowhere near a university. Another big mistake was to basically do away with apprentiships. What better way to learn a skill than to do the job under a skilled practitioner day in and day out, and let?s face it these are the people earning good money these days.

I think that this is a contributory factor as to why so many of the younger white generation will not take on jobs that they feel are beneath them. I also blame my own profession as well. Yes, you must encourage children to be ambitious, but on the other hand be realistic as to what each individual is capable of.

Pretty much agree with all of that Leics! 👍

Not everyone is academic but that does not mean that they cannot be successful in life. Young people today, however, are almost forced through lack of options to go into higher education. It's almost higher education for the sake of it and certainly doesn't seem to have improved productivity within the UK.

I'm absolutely behind the concept of enabling young people from all backgrounds to have equal opportunities to become the best they can but, as you note in your closing sentence, that cannot mean that the reality of their individual capabilities is ignored.

[Omegstrat6]

Thanks Omeg and agree entirely. The irony is the company who my daughter has secured an apprenticeship with take many graduates from top universities like Kings and UCL. So effectively she will be professionally qualified at their expense when these grads join - no student debt and had been paid a very good salary for those four years. A complete no brainer!

Someone said won?t she miss out on ? Uni Life ? which generally is getting p issed.

You are completely right about the economic outlook changing from going to uni and in her case four years afterwards. She?s very excited and 3 months of her apprenticeship will be in New York City too!

I went to uni back in the days when there were no student loans and I was lucky enough to get a grant due to family income. I worked both before going and also throughout all my holidays there as I needed to. I certainly engaged in the *** and drugs and rock n roll aspects of uni life but my primary concern was to work hard and get a decent degree which I did.

For me, whilst my degree didn't help me land the kind of job I had hoped for due to a huge downturn in the economy by the time I graduated, I never regretted going. One of the reasons was because I still use some of the things I learnt from my degree in both work and in life generally and the other is because going to university allowed me to experience things and meet people from vastly different backgrounds that I would never have ordinarily been able to. I met some people from working class backgrounds that I would normally mix with but also many more from an economic strata much higher than my own and I met foreign students with their different cultures; from China, Japan, India, Africa and South America.

Through meeting such a variety of people, I attended an Oxford ball as well as a Rasta blues party in Coventry, I met people like Maz Harris (Hell's Angel with a phd), Marc Henri Glendenning (former Libertarian leader of the Young Conservatives), Germaine Greer (feminist author of The Female Eunuch) and Terry Hall (singer with The Specials). My own circle of both male and female friends was also quite eclectic and diverse including one who is the only person I have ever known to have worn hand made shoes and wear bespoke tailored shirts. I'm certain that had I not gone to uni then I would not have had such opportunities.

Will your daughter miss out on aspects of university life? I don't know, probably. But that depends on the university and,in any case, gaining a well paid job with good career prospects not only has the advantage of greatly helping her to achieve financial security, it can also provide different opportunities and life experiences of its own. Three months working in New York being an example of that! (She probably won't miss the university drinking thing as an alternative &#128513

Anyhow, I wish her all the very best Al

[Albionic68]

Funny how a billionaire who contributes nothing himself spouts divisive rhetoric.. is he trying to win Farage over for a favour, while meantime trying to win one from Starmer at same time? The hypocrite needs to stop colonising Monaco for a starters.

Apologies for not having read the whole thread. Only opened it to say I couldn't give a fug what Ratcliffe had said and stumbled across this. I have no skin in this debate but just wondered whether you knew how much this billionaire had contributed to our coffers over the years before leaving for Monaco? I genuinely don't but if you've got the figures to hand it may add some context. Cheers in advance .

[baggieal]

Apologies for not having read the whole thread. Only opened it to say I couldn't give a fug what Ratcliffe had said and stumbled across this. I have no skin in this debate but just wondered whether you knew how much this billionaire had contributed to our coffers over the years before leaving for Monaco? I genuinely don't but if you've got the figures to hand it may add some context. Cheers in advance .

Come on Regis do your homework before coming on this board. Data and facts please mate 😂😂

Before he left for Monaco, Ratcliffe was the UK?s third-highest individual taxpayer, paying ?110m to the exchequer in 2017-18, according to the Sunday Times tax list.

[WBA123]

I feel that a lot of our problems stem from the Tony Blair era when it was his ambition that 50% of the student population went on to study at university. It was obvious that to accommodate this, standards would drop. I think that I am correct in saying that in the 60?s roughly only 20% of the school population passed the 11+ and from that number only approx 5% went on to university,

It is obvious from those numbers that standards must have dropped. You only have to observe some of the ?Mickey Mouse? subjects on offer today. There are so many students now that should be nowhere near a university. Another big mistake was to basically do away with apprentiships. What better way to learn a skill than to do the job under a skilled practitioner day in and day out, and let?s face it these are the people earning good money these days.

I think that this is a contributory factor as to why so many of the younger white generation will not take on jobs that they feel are beneath them. I also blame my own profession as well. Yes, you must encourage children to be ambitious, but on the other hand be realistic as to what each individual is capable of.

I'm so glad you weren't my teacher. "Know your place - you're factory fodder"

The problem is not the younger generation, it's the Boomers.