Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

I think if they targeted landlords it would be those with multiple properties but who knows.

.

That would be me then!

I just don’t see this ‘social housing good, private landlords bad’ thing, certainly wrt myself and any other landlords I know.

[SithHappens]

I suspect it’s because, as I think Swale implied, it should normally be a safe Labour seat but traditional Labour voters are expressing their dissatisfaction and moving to the Greens.
Voting Tory would just be a wasted vote. The LibDems seem to have lost their way and voting for Goodwin/Farage should be anathema to any original Labour voter.

Still can't work out whats causing the dissatisfaction. I know there have been a few scandals, Mandelson, Rayner but its nothing compared to the tories. I just think the scrutiny on Labour is magnified many many times over and above that of the tories time in charge.

But we know the media has a huge influence in voters opinions. Look at 2010, murdoch had been supporting Labour since 97, but a visit from Cameron and that changed and the tories won.

Any ho, old ground I know.

[SithHappens]

That would be me then!

I just don’t see this ‘social housing good, private landlords bad’ thing, certainly wrt myself and any other landlords I know.

Bad landlords do give all of us a bad name unfortunately.

[SithHappens]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ents-complaint

[ramAnag]

Still can't work out whats causing the dissatisfaction. I know there have been a few scandals, Mandelson, Rayner but its nothing compared to the tories. I just think the scrutiny on Labour is magnified many many times over and above that of the tories time in charge.

But we know the media has a huge influence in voters opinions. Look at 2010, murdoch had been supporting Labour since 97, but a visit from Cameron and that changed and the tories won.

Any ho, old ground I know.

I wasn’t agreeing with the dissatisfaction, Sith, just acknowledging it as a possible cause for the move towards the Greens.
Agree about the influence of the media and although I’d prefer to see the top 10% targeted more from a taxation point of view, I still think Starmer is a big improvement on what we’ve seen for the last decade and a half.

[swaledale]

An example of ‘Green’ extremists would be elements of Palestine action. I’m not suggesting direct affiliation but independant analysis states that they are predominantly ‘green leaning’.

I believe Polanski’s views on gender are a danger to all females.

On the latter, and somewhat related, when we discussed whether people born male should be allowed to compete in female sports we small cohort almost all agreed no, apart from yourself who stated you hadn’t really considered it much (I paraphrase)

Ok some people who are perhaps supporters of The Green Party act in what you (and others no doubt would term extreme) and you give elements of Palestine Action as an example. I'm not aware that the supporters of Palestine Action are predominantly green leaning, they might well be left leaning, but that doesn't necessarily mean Green, they could be members of Your Party or of none.

How does that differ from extremist elements of say, The Labour or Tory parties? Or indeed from the main supporters and MP's in Reform, all of whom, inclding Farage have expressed views that are often extreme and advocated policies that are definitely extreme?


You are of course entitled to your belief that Polanski's views are a danger to all females, but the evidence indicates this isn't true.

"There is a pattern of male-perpetrated violence is evident in the data for cisgender women. In the UK, a woman is killed by a man every three days. Domestic abuse is considered one of the biggest threats to women?s safety, with one in four women having experienced it. From 2020 to 2022, the suspect in 241 out of 249 domestic female homicide cases was male. Overall, men account for 98% of adults prosecuted for ***ual offenses."

Has the confusion over the right of access by trans people to single *** facilities, sport etc. caused discomfort, mental and physical harm to some women in particular? Yes thats a reality, but the situation is more nuanced than you suggest. A dangerous narrative that frames trans people as a threat to women has solidified its grip on public discussion in recent months. It?s a narrative built on fear, not facts.

You are right in that I haven't paid too much attention to the trans issue, though I believe my response was that it seemed to me that there was certainly a way of managing it that respected all parties involved (I accept that a minority would probably never be happy but thats life) and that it shouldn't be weaponised in a childish and frivolous manner by political parties. To me that has echoes of the disgraceful treatment of gay people particulary men back in the day.

The issue of trans women in sport is IMO a totally different issue from the above, but the issue seems to be more about sporting bodies having to catch up and frame their regulations and rules to take account of what is a fairly new factor. That is now happening, and for the record, no I don't consider that a Trans woman should be able to compete against ciswomen in sport.

As a final admittedly anecdotal comment, I discussed this with some women of the younger generation including my daughter and her friends and the majority didn't see trans women as a danger.

I recognise of course that there are those who find the trans issue, either beyond their comprehension, or indeed are in some way "anti" the concept.

However, I think a careful examination of the policie sof Reform and some of the views expressed by them, would seem to pose a greater danger to all females.

[swaledale]

Yet another bunch of coconuts I wouldn't vote for.

I respectfully disagree with you that they are mad! Yes they ahve some ideas and policies that are divergent from the norm, but then one does have to ask the question, look where the "norm" has got us.

But they also have some policies worth thinking about, I note some scoff at ideas on defence, yet in reality, the UK is never going to be able to muster a force that can seriously be an opposition to say Russia or indeed China.

We have a nuclear deterrent, thats effectively controlled and supplied by the US and in reality, Russia or China could wipe out the Uk, whislt we could only inflict damage on a small proportion of either of those countries.

In terms of tax, some rebalancing of the tax system so that the very wealthy pay more, rather than simply accumulating more wealth at the expense of the majorit yof the population is a good idea, the devil of course is in the detail.

Climate change is real whatever the naysayers claim, there is therefore a need to focus on dealing with it and in a manner that does not put the burden on the poorest people in society.

Thats not to say I necessarily agree with their polices but at the very least they should involve discussions as to how things might be done differently.

Nor am I convinced that Polanski is anything other than a charismatic showman. I'd quite like there to be a more left leaning, even more socialist government, I'm too much of a realist to believe that the human race is capable of making it work though, human nature being what it is and all the evidence being that power corrupts whatever system is in place. But unregulated and "free" capitlism certainly has grave faults.

In the end one has to settle for the best that is available and hope to avoid the worst that all the evidence suggests will be a disaster.

Maybe Labour can pull it around we shall see no doubt. But in a situation where voting green will keep reform or some other right wing party out, I'd have no hesitation in voting for them.

[Andy_Faber]

Ok some people who are perhaps supporters of The Green Party act in what you (and others no doubt would term extreme) and you give elements of Palestine Action as an example. I'm not aware that the supporters of Palestine Action are predominantly green leaning, they might well be left leaning, but that doesn't necessarily mean Green, they could be members of Your Party or of none.

How does that differ from extremist elements of say, The Labour or Tory parties? Or indeed from the main supporters and MP's in Reform, all of whom, inclding Farage have expressed views that are often extreme and advocated policies that are definitely extreme?


You are of course entitled to your belief that Polanski's views are a danger to all females, but the evidence indicates this isn't true.

"There is a pattern of male-perpetrated violence is evident in the data for cisgender women. In the UK, a woman is killed by a man every three days. Domestic abuse is considered one of the biggest threats to women?s safety, with one in four women having experienced it. From 2020 to 2022, the suspect in 241 out of 249 domestic female homicide cases was male. Overall, men account for 98% of adults prosecuted for ***ual offenses."

Has the confusion over the right of access by trans people to single *** facilities, sport etc. caused discomfort, mental and physical harm to some women in particular? Yes thats a reality, but the situation is more nuanced than you suggest. A dangerous narrative that frames trans people as a threat to women has solidified its grip on public discussion in recent months. It?s a narrative built on fear, not facts.

You are right in that I haven't paid too much attention to the trans issue, though I believe my response was that it seemed to me that there was certainly a way of managing it that respected all parties involved (I accept that a minority would probably never be happy but thats life) and that it shouldn't be weaponised in a childish and frivolous manner by political parties. To me that has echoes of the disgraceful treatment of gay people particulary men back in the day.

The issue of trans women in sport is IMO a totally different issue from the above, but the issue seems to be more about sporting bodies having to catch up and frame their regulations and rules to take account of what is a fairly new factor. That is now happening, and for the record, no I don't consider that a Trans woman should be able to compete against ciswomen in sport.

As a final admittedly anecdotal comment, I discussed this with some women of the younger generation including my daughter and her friends and the majority didn't see trans women as a danger.

I recognise of course that there are those who find the trans issue, either beyond their comprehension, or indeed are in some way "anti" the concept.

However, I think a careful examination of the policie sof Reform and some of the views expressed by them, would seem to pose a greater danger to all females.

You don?t quote your sources

[swaledale]

You don?t quote your sources

The statistics on violence against women are readily available on line, The national Audit office is one source, there can be variations over the time period recorded, i.e. which year end etc. and my stats came from an article by the Good law project, compared aginst stats from other sources including The national Police Chiefs Council all are comparable.

[Trickytreesreds]

Talk about a knee jerk reaction.

I?m not a supporter of the Greens, although they would certainly have my vote next Thursday if I thought it was the likeliest way to keep the hate mongers out of power.

Having said that, SOME of your criticisms are just unfounded.

1. Migrants are no more synonymous with criminals, terrorists and s*x pests than are our own ?home reared? wrongdoers.home reared? Thats your excuse? We have prisons bursting, but because we have home reared criminals, more coming in is justified? Pathetic.
2. There are already smack heads etc behind the wheel and in pubs, clubs and shopping centres. Polanski just seems to be advocating a public health driven policy on drug use rather than the existing one which, by your own definition of the current situation, has obviously failed. He may be right, he may be wrong but at least he?s offered an alternative to the current failed system. Listen to that again- free hard drugs to those. That want them? You being ex education should be horrified by this. Not only do they ruin their own lives, they will ruin others that don?t take drugs, MORE FREQUENTLY
3. There is a shortage of council housing in this country and a surfeit of privately owned rental property. I wouldn?t seek to discredit all private landlords but, from what we see on TV, there sure as hell are some bad and unscrupulous ones. IF this is a way of providing more responsible and less profit driven property ownership then is that a bad thing? Pathetic. The housing market rentals are littered with Benefit users. If landlords sell up, because Plankski demonises them, where do they go? Council houses won?t build themselves over night.
4. Another one that needs thinking through, but I don?t think anyone is ?crucifying a whole gender?. So you don?t think women?s toilet, changing rooms , sport is a step in crucifying their own spaces? Your moralistic stance is slipping here.
5. Pass. Inclined to agree but don?t know enough about their policy. Whats not to know, he?s effectively withdrawing the UK from group protection and making us unilateral. Ask Ukraine why they want to join NATO.
6. What is wrong with supporting Palestine Action? A question which seems to have been asked in rather higher places than this forum in the last week. Because they are riddled with Jew haters and recently showed how far they will go, to get their way. That re trial cannot come soon enough.
7. Another grown up conversation needed. I don?t know how we can possibly have the services we demand without paying for them via higher taxes. Apparently you and NF do. Feel free to share. His sole rant, is we will get everything from taxing the rich. He never says who the rich are, but even at the top 3% level it won?t cover his bonkers ideas, nor will it help when they run away, taking their investments and jobs with them. Taxing the hell out of the rich has been suggested and tried in many countries. It?s never worked.
8. Have you seen the weather recently? Again I don?t know if this is just a horribly cold and wet winter that seems to have gone on for ever, but I do know that there seem to be more weather related catastrophes these days than ever before. Seems to me that any ?madness? lies with the climate change deniers.
This one really is pathetic. Our sole carbon emissions are less than 1% globally. So what does net zero do? It farms out our production around the world, so we can claim to be good guys. Yet the carbon emissions are increased, with all the transportation involved and logistics. It?s smoke and mirrors. We still demand, use , buy, but someone else does it. Meanwhile we have the highest energy costs in the world , costing us money and jobs. Any industrialist will tell you this.


In the words of Bob Dylan, ?Don?t criticise what you can?t understand.?

Sorry RA I know you are naturally defensive over this crap, but had this been the Tories in power, you?d have been losing your ****