OT Derby Friar Gate Incident

[Andy_Faber]

I do wonder if we’d even be considering terrorism if the accused hadn’t been Asian.

there's a reason for the rA

[ramAnag]

there's a reason for the rA

Well thanks for the validation. Don’t think I’ve ever been referred to as ‘the rA’ before.

More seriously. What reason do you refer to?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'd say the reason AF references follows the duck logic. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck.

Not saying that is correct approach but it is the pragmatic assumption that governs much decision making

[ramAnag]

I'd say the reason AF references follows the duck logic. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck.

Not saying that is correct approach but it is the pragmatic assumption that governs much decision making

I think I’ll wait for AF to clarify, thanks…not least because your explanation would appear to be…if he’s of Asian appearance and involved in an altercation/incident he’s probably a terrorist, which, to follow your theme, is duckin’ stupid.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I would agree its stupid, but in today's blame driven / cover your arse driven society I can understand why it is a consideration for the investigation teams when in "immediate response mode" to at least look down that avenue if only to dismiss the possibility at earliest opportunity: after all a proportion of joe public will leap to that conclusion anyway. Criminal profiling is something that isnt going to go away - like it or not.

Its not as extreme as in the US where stats show that (for example) the 13% afro american community are resonsible for over 50% of murders (source FBI data) hence the growth of criminal profiling there. Interestingly a similar proportion of murder victims are also afro american so it seems to be far more a community/lifestyle/poverty/gang related issue rather than overtly racist black on white crime.

[ramAnag]

I would agree its stupid, but in today's blame driven / cover your arse driven society I can understand why it is a consideration for the investigation teams when in "immediate response mode" to at least look down that avenue if only to dismiss the possibility at earliest opportunity: after all a proportion of joe public will leap to that conclusion anyway. Criminal profiling is something that isnt going to go away - like it or not.

Its not as extreme as in the US where stats show that (for example) the 13% afro american community are resonsible for over 50% of murders (source FBI data) hence the growth of criminal profiling there. Interestingly a similar proportion of murder victims are also afro american so it seems to be far more a community/lifestyle/poverty/gang related issue rather than overtly racist black on white crime.

But neither you, nor Andy, are in ‘immediate response mode’ and, as RP has pointed out, even 5 days on there is so much uninformed speculation that we would all be much better off not jumping to (imo) unfounded conclusions.

I fear that, as far as your duck analogy is concerned, your reputation precedes you and that is, again imo, something for which you have only yourself to blame.

[SithHappens]

What was strange was i had been in the spice lounge until maybe 8.20pm

Then was on sadlergate for a few drinks and never had a clue anything happened until the following morning. Would have thought news would have got round by word if mouth.

[Andy_Faber]

Well thanks for the validation. Don?’t think I?’ve ever been referred to as ?‘the rA?’ before.

More seriously. What reason do you refer to?

The reason, and we've discussed at length before, is profiling. We all do it (yes even you), as mentioned elsewhere on this thread its both human nature and an increasingly used in law enforcement. Accepting the point that 'terror' has a definition that doesn't especially equate to being terrified, most intentional harm events aimed at a random public and perpetrated by 'Asians' in UK are eventually deemed 'terror'. Most of the same perpetrated by others (and I'm not even saying there are less of these) are not. Therefore the public, lacking better info, will make an assumption based on what little they know, and for the most part in this case they have.

Its not racism, its not bigotry, its human nature. It may be that the assumption is wrong and the fellah just got angry that his pizza had pineapple on it, but the assumption is there.

Regarding the police, none of us know their trigger points or what, if any, profiling was undertaken, but there must have been some, in the same way as, for instance, terror was not considered in the Liverpool Victory Parade incident

[ramAnag]

The reason, and we've discussed at length before, is profiling. We all do it (yes even you), as mentioned elsewhere on this thread its both human nature and an increasingly used in law enforcement. Accepting the point that 'terror' has a definition that doesn't especially equate to being terrified, most intentional harm events aimed at a random public and perpetrated by 'Asians' in UK are eventually deemed 'terror'. Most of the same perpetrated by others (and I'm not even saying there are less of these) are not. Therefore the public, lacking better info, will make an assumption based on what little they know, and for the most part in this case they have.

Its not racism, its not bigotry, its human nature. It may be that the assumption is wrong and the fellah just got angry that his pizza had pineapple on it, but the assumption is there.

Regarding the police, none of us know their trigger points or what, if any, profiling was undertaken, but there must have been some, in the same way as, for instance, terror was not considered in the Liverpool Victory Parade incident

You’re right, we do all do it and I’ve certainly judged people I don’t know, but usually on the basis of their behaviour.
However it is racism and it is bigotry when such a judgement/assumption is based on ethnicity and skin colour alone.
There seem to be obvious similarities with the Liverpool Victory Parade and yet, in your own words, ‘terror was not considered’.
Why? Because the perpetrator was white? What a sad reflection on both society and, apparently, your own prejudice.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Is it prejudice if the statistics support the likelihood of something. Just asking for a friend.

I'm this case I don't think the Indian community is particularly prone to terrorism and so could reasonably feel unhappy to be lumped in via profiling with a group more prone to terror attacks.