O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

Just to demonstrate that there are no easy answers, I presume you mean those two EM cities where many of the ‘factories’ employ women at significantly below minimum wage and in some cases pay directly into their husbands’ bank accounts, two amongst many transgressions constantly being chased by trading standards and other agencies. I get that info from a friend in the (lace) industry who’s customers (he’s a designer) actually considered ‘inshoring’ work to U.K. recently because the U.K. pay rates are lower than their usual ones - in Turkey...

So, popping our NHS into PPE made in Leicester using modern slavery and making rich businessmen richer? Shall I tell Nurse Lovelock?

Just making a point that ‘it’s complicated’

You do make a fair point, AF...but similarly you do seem to be taking us away from the ‘friends, family and donors’ aspect. Two wrongs etc.

[Andy_Faber]

You do make a fair point, AF...but similarly you do seem to be taking us away from the ‘friends, family and donors’ aspect. Two wrongs etc.

Not excusing one with the other, just adding colour to the picture

[ramAnag]

Not excusing one with the other, just adding colour to the picture

Hmmm, ‘just adding colour’ and offering a ‘view not an a opinion’. It seems you’re in mischievous mode.

[Ram59]

You do make a fair point, AF...but similarly you do seem to be taking us away from the ‘friends, family and donors’ aspect. Two wrongs etc.

I think at the time there was a certain amount of panic RA and the government, possibly incorrectly in this case, fell back to using those closest to them.

A similar analogy would be, the country is hit by a hurricane with many properties suffering roof damage, you've had tiles ripped off your roof and despite ringing around, you can't get anyone to answer the phone, never mind give you a quote, so when your brother-in-law says that he's got a mate who's done a bit of roofing, you jump at the chance, as there is rain forecast for tonight.

You could argue that the government should have been able to do better than the brother-in-law's mate, but it's difficult to appreciate the chaos, that was going on behind the scenes at the time.

[ramAnag]

I think at the time there was a certain amount of panic RA and the government, possibly incorrectly in this case, fell back to using those closest to them.

A similar analogy would be, the country is hit by a hurricane with many properties suffering roof damage, you've had tiles ripped off your roof and despite ringing around, you can't get anyone to answer the phone, never mind give you a quote, so when your brother-in-law says that he's got a mate who's done a bit of roofing, you jump at the chance, as there is rain forecast for tonight.

You could argue that the government should have been able to do better than the brother-in-law's mate, but it's difficult to appreciate the chaos, that was going on behind the scenes at the time.

I’m sorry Ram but that seems a really daft analogy to me.
Of course individuals might clutch at any ‘straw’ in a crisis, but we’re talking here about a major World Government and hundreds of millions of pounds which may have been, coincidentally, misdirected towards friends, family and donors.
There really is no comparison and I’m actually surprised at you trying to defend the situation.

[Andy_Faber]

I think at the time there was a certain amount of panic RA and the government, possibly incorrectly in this case, fell back to using those closest to them.

A similar analogy would be, the country is hit by a hurricane with many properties suffering roof damage, you've had tiles ripped off your roof and despite ringing around, you can't get anyone to answer the phone, never mind give you a quote, so when your brother-in-law says that he's got a mate who's done a bit of roofing, you jump at the chance, as there is rain forecast for tonight.

You could argue that the government should have been able to do better than the brother-in-law's mate, but it's difficult to appreciate the chaos, that was going on behind the scenes at the time.

That's absolutely how it goes in times of panic/urgency. IF (big IF) HMG, acting for the taxpayer, went for their mates who they KNEW could do the best job possible in the circumstances I'm fine with a bit of a premium price so long as the delivery and quality side of the contract is nice and tight. What I WOULDN'T be fine with is if HMG went for mates with NO track record of delivering the required goods/services JUST because they were mates.

So Ram's right if he's got a relative's mate up on his roof if that mate's mate is REALLY a roofer. If the relative's mate is a barrista, an actor or an accountant, Ram's wrong and he's been done over by his relative. The analogy is fine

[swaledale]

heres me thinking people who want to be leaders should be competent to do it, but seems the voters didn't really care about competence when they voted in a part led by Johnson!

I always had a saying "Anyone can manage when things are going well, its when the **** hits the fan that one finds out if a person can really manage"

On that score Johnson (as was obvious from his track record) has failed miserably. I'm not even sure you can credit the vaccination success to him, strikes me it was the one thing left to the experts to procure and deliver and its gone well.

[swaledale]

We have very high death rates from a global pandemic and the government’s handling of that pandemic shares the same marks of ignoring the science, promising big and delivering late and small. What is saving us at the moment is that when the scientists dig in their heels even this government does the right thing (late), that UK science (not under government guidance or leadership) has delivered vaccines and that the NHS has been too strong and wonderful an institution to allow us to die in even greater numbers. The bright spots in the pandemic are the areas where government has been unable to cock it up and where public service has remained the bedrock of how the system works despite this government’s incompetence.

[ramAnag]

We have very high death rates from a global pandemic and the government’s handling of that pandemic shares the same marks of ignoring the science, promising big and delivering late and small. What is saving us at the moment is that when the scientists dig in their heels even this government does the right thing (late), that UK science (not under government guidance or leadership) has delivered vaccines and that the NHS has been too strong and wonderful an institution to allow us to die in even greater numbers. The bright spots in the pandemic are the areas where government has been unable to cock it up and where public service has remained the bedrock of how the system works despite this government’s incompetence.

I think that’s fair comment Swale. Just as Churchill can’t be personally credited with the success of the Normandy landings, so Johnson can’t be personally credited with the success of the vaccination programme or personally held to account for the emergence of the British/Kent variant.
The job of any PM, particularly at a time of crisis, is to be a figurehead, a leader and first rate communicator. Unfortunately he seems to have failed on all those counts hence MA’s alleged 25/75% approximate success/failure rate in terms of the Government’s handling of Covid.
The other main job of a leader, and I appreciate that this was done with only Brexit - and not Covid - on the immediate horizon, is to choose a good team/Cabinet to implement strategies.
Looking at the current bunch it seems likely that only Hancock and Sunak might emerge with any eventual credit. Words fail me as far as the child like Williamson, the rabbit in the headlights Gove, ‘Cruella’ Patel and ‘Arthur Daley’ Jenrick are concerned. Not good choices at all imo.

[swaledale]

I think that’s fair comment Swale. Just as Churchill can’t be personally credited with the success of the Normandy landings, so Johnson can’t be personally credited with the success of the vaccination programme or personally held to account for the emergence of the British/Kent variant.
The job of any PM, particularly at a time of crisis, is to be a figurehead, a leader and first rate communicator. Unfortunately he seems to have failed on all those counts hence MA’s alleged 25/75% approximate success/failure rate in terms of the Government’s handling of Covid.
The other main job of a leader, and I appreciate that this was done with only Brexit - and not Covid - on the immediate horizon, is to choose a good team/Cabinet to implement strategies.
Looking at the current bunch it seems likely that only Hancock and Sunak might emerge with any eventual credit. Words fail me as far as the child like Williamson, the rabbit in the headlights Gove, ‘Cruella’ Patel and ‘Arthur Daley’ Jenrick are concerned. Not good choices at all imo.

You will forgive me if I don't share you enthusiasm for Hancock, he is useless and as for Sunak, well eat to help out was supposedly one of his ideas, so not so sure that compared to the other useless ****wits, its not just that in comparison he seems partially sentient. Anyway Sunak has done the easy part, doling out money, the hard part comes post pandemic.