Lawrence and Bennett...

[MadAmster]

Well said rA. There are an awful lot of previous, similar incidents at other clubs where the players involved played the next game. Our 2 didn't. Fans of other clubs now claiming the moral high ground are no more than mischief makers.

Derby fans feeling their players shouldn't be picked is another question altogether. I wouldn't have selected either player until after the case gets heard in court.

Looking at it another way, I wouldn't have selected TL in any case because he has done nowt since the opening game of the season and doesn't warrant a start for purely footballing reasons. Also, Barnsley are vulnerable down the flanks and I would have played JML wide left.

There may also be reasons connected to Employment Law and the content of players' contracts as to why the club, after a perfectly understandable "1 match ban" played one and had the other on the bench in order to not leave themselves open to litigation. It is said we are already losing half a million a week. If that is true we can't afford to open ourselves up to multi-million pound court case, especially if that money counted against us in FFP.......

[StensonRam]

Took the words out of my mouth RA

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sorry, I too am with Swale, Mac and (perish the thought) Tricky here. I don't think the players should have been named in the squad until the legal issues are resolved. It just seems to cynical. They were given Saturday off to sober up, but then straight back in as if nothing had happened.

Wait for the verdicts to be announced before looking at the contractual issues for sure, but for now I would have kept them out of the spotlight, out of the match day squad and certainly not put them into an away game where opposing fans might express their views on the actions.

Did anyone go and did they get and home fan abuse?

[ramAnag]

Sorry, I too am with Swale, Mac and (perish the thought) Tricky here. I don't think the players should have been named in the squad until the legal issues are resolved. It just seems to cynical. They were given Saturday off to sober up, but then straight back in as if nothing had happened.

Wait for the verdicts to be announced before looking at the contractual issues for sure, but for now I would have kept them out of the spotlight, out of the match day squad and certainly not put them into an away game where opposing fans might express their views on the actions.

Did anyone go and did they get and home fan abuse?

No need to be ‘sorry’, GP. Take and respect your point, and that of mac and Swale completely.
You may all be absolutely right...I’m just sick of the hysterical and hypocritical rantings of Tricky who’s real motivation is there for all to see.

[macstheman]

Yes, I am angry but if anything I am more angry at DCFC and Mel than the low life that besmirched their club, betrayed the fans and put innocent people's lives at risk!!
Whilst I am sure that the club are mindful of contractual issues I cannot believe that a charge relating to a very serious criminal offence would not demand a period of suspension of duties pending the outcome of court proceedings. Such a period would normally be considered to be in the best interests of both the employer and employee and would not imply guilt.
I do know two people who were charged with DD, one worked for a major engineering firm and the other the NHS. Both were suspended pending the outcome and both were found guilty primarily on the evidence of the test results. Neither were involved in accidents. One, from the engineering firm, was summarily dismissed (his duties did involve some driving) whilst the NHS employee was demoted and moved to another department and put on six months probation. Trustworthiness here being the issue. Both received suspended custodial sentences.
To their credit, chastened by everything, both never repeated their actions!! One has sadly since passed away whilst the other is a volunteer at their local hospital.
I have also had the misfortune of losing a very close friend (who my parents considered to be part of our family) by the actions of a DD and seen the devastation it reeked upon his family and my family.
DCFC's response to this does make one think that the miscreants value to the club is greater than the seriousness of the offence and that makes my anger even greater!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

where is the like button when you need it?

[Trickytreesreds]

Am I stupid? Jeez...will you listen to yourself? I’d call you embarrassing but you can’t even spell the word.

Where have I said they’re ‘innocent’? Where have I defended them? That’s just what you’d like me to have said and done.

For the record then.

Everyone is ‘innocent until proven guilty’. The case hasn’t yet gone to court and I will reserve my judgement until we know a lot more.
From what we on here know it looks very bad for them and I’d have preferred them not to have been selected last night, but I’m sure Cocu knows more than me - and dare I say it, even you - about exactly what happened and it was his decision.

Would I have selected them? No...but people with more information than you or I decided to select players still contracted to DCFC who have yet to be convicted of a driving offence.

IMO...drinking and driving...like speeding is more complex than it sometimes seems. For instance...again just imo...driving at 40mph in a 30 mph limit or outside a school is a more serious offence than driving at 70 mph on a dual carriageway in a 60 mph limit.
Likewise driving when ‘hammered’ is a far more serious offence than driving when marginally over the limit.
At the moment we have all seen pictures of Mason Bennett looking ‘wrecked’ and seemingly totally unfit to drive. We haven’t seen any such pictures of Lawrence.
If they were over the limit both were in the wrong - I’ll say that again slowly just for you...’both were in the wrong’ - but we don’t know the full details yet so let’s wait and see and reserve judgement till we do.

Football is littered with examples of overpaid prima donnas behaving badly...Gazza, Stan Collymore, George Best to name but three...but where were you when Rooney, YaYa Toure, Lloris and Drinkwater were all recently done for the same offence?
Answer...nowhere...absolutely nothing to say. Why? Because all you’re interested in is finding a stick to beat Derby County with.
You aren’t angry, like macstheman, because the players look like they’ve done wrong and have let the club down, you’re actually delighted because you’ve been provided with some free ammunition to have a pop at Derby with.

Also for the record...it seems Rooney, Toure and Lloris all played in the next game having been arrested for drinking and driving...indeed Hugo Lloris is still captain of both club and country I believe. I’m not saying that makes it right but let’s not pretend, as you would love to, that this is just a Derby County problem.

Finally, if and when - possibly in about eleven days time - these players are found guilty of dangerous driving while under the influence of alcohol, or whatever the eventual charge is, then the situation will have changed and I may well agree with Swale and mac about the need to get rid of them. Until then it is not up to either you, me or the club to play judge and jury and I suggest you shut up about something we are all jumping to conclusions about and await the verdict.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

Of course it's up to the club to judge them

1. They was on a club bonding day
2. They got hammered and pictures all over social media
3. They ignored the clubs offered curtosy transport
4. they broke the law KNOWING they had been drinking and were suspect in their actions
5. Publically a scene occurs involving a RTI, which entails police attendance
6.Police attendence ends in arrest and charges laid.

Whether they have been convicted yet or not, their very actions have bought the club into disrepute and embarressed it.
They should be suspended until CLEARED OR SENTENCED.
Anything else is an affront to what happens in other places of work.

And no smart arse. I'm not just saying this because it's DCFC. If it was my clubs players, I'd still be screaming.
Footballers are role models, like it or not.They set precedents and provide examples for youngsters.
They failed and so has the club.

You can say what you want, you are soft soaping this. But this is a classic example of the pampering of footballers and their prima dona status. What if it was a policeman/fireman/nurse/forces official? Would you still be so soft?
I hope they suspended sentences at least, if and when found guilty. Contrary to what Stenson wants, if they have failed the test at the station, then they are guilty. They don't prosecute without that one.
If the rumours are to be believed, there may be an issue of a dope test failure as well here.
If that is true, then jail the culpret and a ban.

Only after answering for it, would I consider them off the hook.

[ramAnag]

Yes, I am angry but if anything I am more angry at DCFC and Mel than the low life that besmirched their club, betrayed the fans and put innocent people's lives at risk!!
Whilst I am sure that the club are mindful of contractual issues I cannot believe that a charge relating to a very serious criminal offence would not demand a period of suspension of duties pending the outcome of court proceedings. Such a period would normally be considered to be in the best interests of both the employer and employee and would not imply guilt.
I do know two people who were charged with DD, one worked for a major engineering firm and the other the NHS. Both were suspended pending the outcome and both were found guilty primarily on the evidence of the test results. Neither were involved in accidents. One, from the engineering firm, was summarily dismissed (his duties did involve some driving) whilst the NHS employee was demoted and moved to another department and put on six months probation. Trustworthiness here being the issue. Both received suspended custodial sentences.
To their credit, chastened by everything, both never repeated their actions!! One has sadly since passed away whilst the other is a volunteer at their local hospital.
I have also had the misfortune of losing a very close friend (who my parents considered to be part of our family) by the actions of a DD and seen the devastation it reeked upon his family and my family.
DCFC's response to this does make one think that the miscreants value to the club is greater than the seriousness of the offence and that makes my anger even greater!!

Well put mac. We see things slightly differently but I fully accept that the experience you speak of with your friend gives you a perspective I am just genuinely grateful to have never had.
I wouldn’t challenge anything you have written, only the witterings of those who seek to score points through this whole tawdry affair, and I think, for what it’s worth, that your second paragraph is probably the most sensible thing to have been written on this whole thread.

[ramAnag]

Tricky...your incoherent ramblings are really not worth replying to.

You love having a go at DCFC, that’s the top and bottom of it.
There are plenty of other footballers and managers who’ve been in the same situation, or worse, and there’s never been a word from you, but all of a sudden...because it’s two Derby players, it’s suddenly a perfect example of ‘pampering footballers and their prima donna status’.

I don’t know of any Derby fan on here who has defended the individuals concerned but equally, and for the final time, it is not up to any of us or the club to pass judgement...it is up to the Courts.

Lastly...I don’t even begin to understand your point about ‘would I be so soft if it was a policeman, fireman, nurse, forces official’? Firstly I’m not being ‘soft’ and secondly I’d have exactly the same attitude towards whoever was concerned in a similar situation...I wouldn’t be judging them until I was sure of all the facts.

Not sure if you just live in an entirely black and white world where everything is neatly compartmentalised and there is no concept of any sort of moral maze or if you just get off on adopting the high moral ground that goes with someone who is so bloody perfect.

[MadAmster]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

Of course it's up to the club to judge them

1. They was on a club bonding day
2. They got hammered and pictures all over social media
3. They ignored the clubs offered curtosy transport
4. they broke the law KNOWING they had been drinking and were suspect in their actions
5. Publically a scene occurs involving a RTI, which entails police attendance
6.Police attendence ends in arrest and charges laid.

Whether they have been convicted yet or not, their very actions have bought the club into disrepute and embarressed it.
They should be suspended until CLEARED OR SENTENCED.
Anything else is an affront to what happens in other places of work.

And no smart arse. I'm not just saying this because it's DCFC. If it was my clubs players, I'd still be screaming.
Footballers are role models, like it or not.They set precedents and provide examples for youngsters.
They failed and so has the club.

You can say what you want, you are soft soaping this. But this is a classic example of the pampering of footballers and their prima dona status. What if it was a policeman/fireman/nurse/forces official? Would you still be so soft?
I hope they suspended sentences at least, if and when found guilty. Contrary to what Stenson wants, if they have failed the test at the station, then they are guilty. They don't prosecute without that one.
If the rumours are to be believed, there may be an issue of a dope test failure as well here.
If that is true, then jail the culpret and a ban.

Only after answering for it, would I consider them off the hook.

Tricky, were you as vociferous in recent seasons when it was Rooney and Drinkwater and many others over the limit?

If not, and I don't recall your slating those players or their clubs, then it is perfectly natural that Rams fans view your righteous behaviour as little more than mischief making. If you did slate all those other players and other clubs then you may hold your head high.

I would add that DCFC left both drivers out of the Birmingham game. Other players have been selected immediately by their clubs....... and yes, I wouldn't have played them until after the court case but that isn't my decision.