Internal Problems in the Club

[Godsend.F.C.]

Some good points other than the suggestion that Warne could do no wrong. Apart from being at the centre of everything.

He got plenty wrong Grist, not just this season either. Created a 'family club' atmosphere which can have its advantages and its disadvantages. He's gone-stick with MT, give him a chance to bring his own players in over next pre-season, then judge him.
There is life after PW.

[ragingpup]

Some good points other than the suggestion that Warne could do no wrong. Apart from being at the centre of everything.

I think that I find it difficult to pin anything specific on Warne without there being mitigating circumstances, most notably the budget he had to work with in the championship, that was the reason why he left. A poster said he was likely too soft with Stewart, but not sure how much more hardball you can take it by saying to the manager that he will have to look at alternative opportunities arise. I'm confient that this would have happened, and Stewart knew full well and accepted the risk that Warne would go. I don't think you can say Warne was too soft on this.

The bottom line for me is could he have done better in his Championship campaigns with the players he did have at his disposal, and my gut feeling is probably not. I think ultinately the chickens would have come home to roost on this season as well even though he can point to leaving us in a good place. But he did play to the strengths of the kind of player he could recruit and the last 2 campaigns we were competitive to the last. He deserves his go at a better resourced club but as I said in my post, I suspect it is only then that we will be able to see if he can properly punch his weight as a manager at that level. I personally was very proud to have him as spokesperson for the club and liked the values he aimed to run by, although I feel that the inclusion of allowing players to take the knee as they wished, and supporting them vocally on this, is possibly a prime reason why several people have been anti-Warne for so long. Fair enough, it's about opinions.

I'm sure that MT will be successful if allowed the time to rebuild and we should get behind him and the club in this difficult but as we all know from history, inevitable period of change. I take Derby's point that he may have made the change more gradually, or it may have had a more positive impact if the big target man was there, but it seemed to me that we were playing Ogbene/Wash up front before he called on big fella in the last 2 games. Didn't our bad run start before then (straight after the WC break?). But whatever, Waren's gone, MT is the leader and let's get behind him, the lads and the club.

[mellowmiller]

As stated on my earlier post, he says he cannot do that because he doesn't have the players, we have no centre forward!!!!

Did Warne have a centre forward when we were in 8th position?
Eaves was injured as per usual and Kelly was only used as an occasional substitute.
It's always up to the manager, whoever he is, to get the best out of resources at his disposal.
I don't know where we would be in the league table if we'd carried on pressing teams (nobody does) and playing to our strengths but what we're witnessing at the moment is woeful because the manager has changed too much too soon.
Yes he needs to be given time and I hope he succeeds because I hate to see my club struggling......but I'm not convinced by what I've seen so far.

[millertop]

Did Warne have a centre forward when we were in 8th position?
Eaves was injured as per usual and Kelly was only used as an occasional substitute.
It's always up to the manager, whoever he is, to get the best out of resources at his disposal.
I don't know where we would be in the league table if we'd carried on pressing teams (nobody does) and playing to our strengths but what we're witnessing at the moment is woeful because the manager has changed too much too soon.
Yes he needs to be given time and I hope he succeeds because I hate to see my club struggling......but I'm not convinced by what I've seen so far.

Do you think he changed it too much because he wanted too it because he was forced to?

[mellowmiller]

Do you think he changed it too much because he wanted too it because he was forced to?

Well he said he was looking forward to the World Cup break so he could implement his ideas into the squad and get them playing how he wants them to.
Seems pretty clear to me.

[millertop]

Well he said he was looking forward to the World Cup break so he could implement his ideas into the squad and get them playing how he wants them to.
Seems pretty clear to me.

He did but the players have been injured and ill since coming back which is pretty clear so how can he have put his changes that he wants by choice?

Why don’t you wait to see what happens when the players are back to judge, I know I think he’ll make it work but I also know I’ll be my usual self in moaning if he doesn’t

[Derbymiller]

I think PW deserves a lot of credit, his entire career in the Championship is now judged on 9 games and where his team was after 9 games, amazing how history is so easily forgotten. I think any manager worth his salt would always say that it is where you are after the last game that matters and on all three occasions when Warne has had a last game of the season finish (in the championship) his team have been in the bottom three. We were 8th when he left, but we had recently been hammered by Sunderland and got knocked out a cup at home to a poor League 1 team. We can all spin it however we want to either make PW look good or bad, as stated above he has left us and good luck to him in his career, there is nothing PW can do now to help us so let us focus on the man that can. MT has lost the best defender at the club, the best all round player at the club and has two of his best players looking at new houses away from Rotherham, one of which makes most of our goals the other one scores them, add to that we have no fit centre forward at the club and the fact we are not yet in the bottom three is quite an achievement. I do agree that whatever they tried to do in the WC break has failed, and he would be best to try and go back but I genuinely do not believe he has the players to do that in terms of fitness and interest.

[Redshank]

I think that I find it difficult to pin anything specific on Warne without there being mitigating circumstances, most notably the budget he had to work with in the championship, that was the reason why he left. A poster said he was likely too soft with Stewart, but not sure how much more hardball you can take it by saying to the manager that he will have to look at alternative opportunities arise. I'm confient that this would have happened, and Stewart knew full well and accepted the risk that Warne would go. I don't think you can say Warne was too soft on this.

The bottom line for me is could he have done better in his Championship campaigns with the players he did have at his disposal, and my gut feeling is probably not. I think ultinately the chickens would have come home to roost on this season as well even though he can point to leaving us in a good place. But he did play to the strengths of the kind of player he could recruit and the last 2 campaigns we were competitive to the last. He deserves his go at a better resourced club but as I said in my post, I suspect it is only then that we will be able to see if he can properly punch his weight as a manager at that level. I personally was very proud to have him as spokesperson for the club and liked the values he aimed to run by, although I feel that the inclusion of allowing players to take the knee as they wished, and supporting them vocally on this, is possibly a prime reason why several people have been anti-Warne for so long. Fair enough, it's about opinions.

I'm sure that MT will be successful if allowed the time to rebuild and we should get behind him and the club in this difficult but as we all know from history, inevitable period of change. I take Derby's point that he may have made the change more gradually, or it may have had a more positive impact if the big target man was there, but it seemed to me that we were playing Ogbene/Wash up front before he called on big fella in the last 2 games. Didn't our bad run start before then (straight after the WC break?). But whatever, Waren's gone, MT is the leader and let's get behind him, the lads and the club.

As a self confessed "Warney boy" I agree with everthing you say, but you're wasting your time. It's ironic that the ones that wanted Warney out are the same ones that still bang on about him the most and blame him for the current situation. There's not a day goes by I don't read a disparaging anti Warne post from the likes of gru and Grist and I honestly don't understand what their agenda is...other than wind up merchants.

Whenever PW left there was always going to be upheaval. For whatever reason, this didn't manifest itself until after the world cup break. The bottom line is "is MT a good manager and a good fit for RUFC". Gut feeling says yes, but only time will truly tell.

He has to be given time and that time will probably involve a relegation. So be it, we're past masters of surviving that scenario ffs! Supporters have to play their part and we have to stick by MT. Discussion and opinion on MM etc is one thing and largely meaningless, but daft "TS out" banners (or such like) are a different kettle of fish and won't do any good whatsoever.

UTM

[ragingpup]

I think PW deserves a lot of credit, his entire career in the Championship is now judged on 9 games and where his team was after 9 games, amazing how history is so easily forgotten. I think any manager worth his salt would always say that it is where you are after the last game that matters and on all three occasions when Warne has had a last game of the season finish (in the championship) his team have been in the bottom three. We were 8th when he left, but we had recently been hammered by Sunderland and got knocked out a cup at home to a poor League 1 team. We can all spin it however we want to either make PW look good or bad, as stated above he has left us and good luck to him in his career, there is nothing PW can do now to help us so let us focus on the man that can. MT has lost the best defender at the club, the best all round player at the club and has two of his best players looking at new houses away from Rotherham, one of which makes most of our goals the other one scores them, add to that we have no fit centre forward at the club and the fact we are not yet in the bottom three is quite an achievement. I do agree that whatever they tried to do in the WC break has failed, and he would be best to try and go back but I genuinely do not believe he has the players to do that in terms of fitness and interest.

I think only very stupid people would judge Warne only on where he was when he left us. You have to (of course!) look at his whole record since joining us and as I said previously, he has done very well at rebuilding and beating off better resourced teams to gain promotion 3 times, but his lack of success in this league, whether we think with or without the necessary resources doesn't really matter now, will always mean that we can't say anything much more than he has only proven himself as a successful manager to a certain extent. I think that Derby fans will have a much better idea than us as to whether he can be more successful at a higher level and with a greater budget. But he may not even get that far with them. Only time will tell.

People being much too quick to take biased stances as to both Warne's record, and MT's existing record. Again, only an idiot would surely conclude that injuries haven't worked horribly against him so far. Much more debatable is that he has the players to succeed at this level at all. But aside from that, maybe January will give us a picture as to how MT will play it on the man management side of things - is he going to drop any player who won't sign a new contract and sell them to the highest bidder on the grounds that they 'don't want to be here' and we can at least command a fee. Again remains to be seen but it does seem to be shaping up that way. It will be a divisive tactic, sounds good in theory, but how much will we get in losing their services for the rest of the season? Can we get replacements at anything like their level mid season and in haste. Very risky, but if that is his preferred method, I'll back him, even if it takes us down. Rebuild rebuild. Do it his way at least until Xmas of season back in league 1 and then take stock.

[millertop]

I think it’s called reality, we had similar posts when Warney was made manager