O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[WanChaiMiller]

That's a nonsense argument. Entering into any sort of international obligation or treaty arguably involves a degree of surrender of sovereignty. As an example, the UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights and accepts the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights. The point is, however, that our democratically elected government chose to surrender a degree of autonomy and sovereignty in doing so.

Sorry tried to edit but lost it.

I totally agree its complete nonsense. However, regaining sovereignty is one of the main rarguments Brexiteers put forward for leaving the EU. Leaving to trade under WTO rule simply does not achieve that end.

[Exiletyke]

Not all considerations are economic
There is the matter of
Borders
Laws
& we seem to overlook fishing rights

[rolymiller]

For me the original referendum didn't spell out clearly enough the consequences of leaving the EU. Would there have been so many leave voters if they had known that we would have all this shambles attempting to leave. The original vote was at a time of terrorist activity which stoked up knee jerk xenophobic reactions to immigration which the far right fed. The arguments now, with terrorist activities somewhat quieter, are more economic. So my point is the leave or stay vote would have a different frame now. It therefore begs the question then would the results have been different in the original referendum if t had been based on economic arguments. I suspect it could have been.

[Exiletyke]

To

For me the original referendum didn't spell out clearly enough the consequences of leaving the EU. Would there have been so many leave voters if they had known that we would have all this shambles attempting to leave. The original vote was at a time of terrorist activity which stoked up knee jerk xenophobic reactions to immigration which the far right fed. The arguments now, with terrorist activities somewhat quieter, are more economic. So my point is the leave or stay vote would have a different frame now. It therefore begs the question then would the results have been different in the original referendum if t had been based on economic arguments. I suspect it could have been.

We voted to leave
The shambles you now see is as a result of a remainer leading the negotiations & not very well to boot
Nowt to do with the vote

[WanChaiMiller]

To

We voted to leave
The shambles you now see is as a result of a remainer leading the negotiations & not very well to boot
Nowt to do with the vote

Davies Raab Barclay all prominent Brexiteers. Cabinet generally an even split (that clisely reflects the vote). Only May - who has actually created a transition deal that will take us out.

[ragingpup]

I could have sworn that the ballot said

LEAVE or
REMAIN

Tell me what were the other words I missed

If the vote had said Leave with no deal v Remain then we would have had clarity.

But it didn't, so we don't.

[Timbertop]

Always thought May's deal was a soft Brexit ! How much softer can we get ?

[WanChaiMiller]

Always thought May's deal was a soft Brexit ! How much softer can we get ?

As it stands there is no Brexit deal. Mays is an interim agreement to create the framework to negotiate the leave deal.

[wendun]

I have to agree with John. People are making things up as they go along. Not a single person of my acquaintance had a clear idea on these implications: they all (and I mean all) thought we would just leave, get a free trade agreement keeping the import/export position much as it was, stop immigration, stop paying anything to the EU and suddenly find that all our coastal communities had multi million pound trawlers and trained fishermen in the garage. And the "freeing up the UK to trade with the world" argument is rubbish. Any economist will tell you the constraints of the UK's poor productivity, poor R&D investment, shocking infrastructure, poor transport, limited airport and port capacity all mean we couldn't export any more than we do now. You guys are deluded.
What I don't understand is why so many guys on a football forum who don't export, don't import, don't employ people amd are never likely to encounter the various Europen Courts feels so strongly about this?

[great_fire]

I bet Cameron didn't know this was going to turn into a class war, but the chattering classes in their London bubble have such contempt for the rest of the country and are so arrogant, perhaps it was inevitable.