O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[upthemaggies]

UTM, you've been entirely reasonable and correct all the way through but you're wasting your time. .

Well, as Driller pointed out, I'm probably guilty of hyperbole to some extent but it's difficult to remain calm and rational at all times in the face of such hysteria.
I was pro lockdown and masks until around June 2020, there were very few voices opposed initially, I think the poster with the lone wolf avatar was the only one here making the case against over multiple posts. People are realising now that this vaccine is likely going to become a quarterly subscription, or at lleast 2-3 a year - which would be unprecedented, and then this is for a jab that's not gone through the correct procedure on safety and surrounded by secrecy, there's going to be a lot who won't be happy about that and will now be more willing to listen to people previously dismissed as conspiracy theorists and lumped in with crackpots talking about lizard people and hologram planes at 911.

Most of my family have been jabbed so I'm praying the only problem with it is that it's basically not worth the bother in the long run. It obviously does something, you can't kick start the body into making spike proteins and not have something going on, it is stimulating an immune response but there has to be a cost to that over time. If a cell or DNA can repair itself 5 times in your lifetime then it's not a big deal if it's being required to do so once every 16 years or so, if it's having to do that every four months and the effect is widespread in the body in key areas, then we've got a very serious problem.

[BanjoPie]

Well, as Driller pointed out, I'm probably guilty of hyperbole to some extent but it's difficult to remain calm and rational at all times in the face of such hysteria.
I was pro lockdown and masks until around June 2020, there were very few voices opposed initially, I think the poster with the lone wolf avatar was the only one here making the case against over multiple posts. People are realising now that this vaccine is likely going to become a quarterly subscription, or at lleast 2-3 a year - which would be unprecedented, and then this is for a jab that's not gone through the correct procedure on safety and surrounded by secrecy, there's going to be a lot who won't be happy about that and will now be more willing to listen to people previously dismissed as conspiracy theorists and lumped in with crackpots talking about lizard people and hologram planes at 911.

Most of my family have been jabbed so I'm praying the only problem with it is that it's basically not worth the bother in the long run. It obviously does something, you can't kick start the body into making spike proteins and not have something going on, it is stimulating an immune response but there has to be a cost to that over time. If a cell or DNA can repair itself 5 times in your lifetime then it's not a big deal if it's being required to do so once every 16 years or so, if it's having to do that every four months and the effect is widespread in the body in key areas, then we've got a very serious problem.

it seems you are beyond help UTM - I sincerely hope you don't succumb to the virus.

[upthemaggies]

it seems you are beyond help UTM - I sincerely hope you don't succumb to the virus.

I survived it. Probably will have trouble surviving the next one though at the cost of battling this one. By next one I mean a whole new virus, not a variant. Sars-2 variants are in the 3% variation I think. Can't remember the exact figures but your immune system will recognise 60% or so similar.

As an aside, I've heard Omicron isn't where you'd expect it to be if you plotted the graph with the swarm of tens of thousands of variants over the past two years. You'd expect it to be towards the end with recent variants, but it's apparently somewhere in the middle, which doesn't make sense unless it's been frozen in time and then released. Early days though and it will require further analysis.

[cher1]

There's no science for it, not a graph on the planet showing a lessening of transmission for mask wearing

That is completely wrong. Here you go:

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

[BanjoPie]

Many on here are divided regards covid vaccination however, regardless of one’s individual opinion, I wish everyone on this forum a very Merry Christmas and a happy new year. I am just about to leave the UK to spend the holiday period in Asia.

Stay safe everybody. COYP’s

[applepie2]

The government aren’t using covid as a stealth tactic to take away our rights. They’re already doing that in plain sight with the Nationality and Borders Bill;

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/what-...hange-12488364

and the Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill;

https://centralbylines.co.uk/amendme...ts-to-protest/.

That’s in addition of course to the removal of our freedom of movement at the start of the year. Curiously, I haven’t seen a single anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, or anti-lockdown merchant express concern about any of these proposed measures. In fact if anything many seem all for them.

Why would that be?

Exactly.

[optipez]

That is completely wrong. Here you go:

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

Just to be clear, I've taken the vaccine so I'm not a conspiracy theorist, they have been shown to work and I absolutely believe in their efforts acy.
There's been a lot of studies on mask wearing the last couple of years and at best they've been inconclusive. It's very tricky to measure as even with control groups you can't necessarily give exact like for like experience in real world environments.
On observation from cities and countries with strong mask wearing protocols most studies haven't been able to nail their colours to the mast and say it's made a difference. Paris and New York have both been pretty strict and are both seeing remorsely rising cases at the moment.
If there was conclusive proof Whitty and Vallance would absolutely have put up a graph at their press conferences , Hancock would have been shouting from the roof tops and we would all have heard about it.
When pressed they've admitted that evidence is thin, which is a 180° U turn on their original comments when they told us not to wear them. It's also worth noting that the masks most people wear aren't top quality or even a good fit.
Personally and anecdotes are entirely unscientific, I've watched a lot of people I know who've followed the rules and protocols very closely and still some have succumbed but thankfully all got better.
I'll nail my colours to the mast though Cher and say that Covid is endemic now and that it's going to rip through the whole world, New Zealand included in the end as people will just get worn down in a war of attrition lasting years that can't be won.

[Elite_Pie]

There's been a lot of studies on mask wearing the last couple of years and at best they've been inconclusive.

I bloody hate wearing a mask, but the reason I wear one when I'm told is based on common sense more than any random stats. We know the virus is spread by droplets, so containing those droplets behind a mask seems a better option than expelling them to everyone else.

It's designed to protect others rather than yourself, that's why I comply.

[upthemaggies]

Latest figures from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre now showing the majority of Covid ICU patients in October and November were vaccinated.

[Elite_Pie]

Latest figures from the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre now showing the majority of Covid ICU patients in October and November were vaccinated.

Not surprising, because the vast majority of people are now vaccinated! Do you have stats on any correlation between jabbed and unjabbed people based on numbers in each group? Even then, it would need to be broken down into age groups, because the very young at least risk will be included as 'unjabbed' mainly because it hasn't been offered to them.

I've said before I don't like these links because it's easy to find one that says what you want it to say, but I'll break my rule and post this:

Unvaccinated people are 32 times more likely to die from coronavirus than those who have been doubled-jabbed, according to the figures from the Office for National Statistics.

You could probably find some obscure link to contradict that, but because it's a gamble I prefer to try and keep the odds in my favour.