o/t civil war, strikes, walk outs, political parties collapsing/ emerging.....

[Exiletyke]

I drove past a gilet jaune camp at Albertville a few weeks ago. It was quite impressive - they had a barbecue going and a little gazebo with chairs in where they were sitting and drinking bottled beer. A chap by the roadside offered me a leaflet, but didn’t start rioting when I declined it. I appreciate that Paris has seen some more lively protesting.

Yes I saw the same footage on YouTube as well

[frogmiller]

Don't you think it feels like its dying down here though? In January I was driving past the pickets, and the toll roads and speed cameras were down, there was a big presence, now it just seems to be more confined to Paris. I did see an abandoned yellow vest behind my parking space in Chamonix last week though, just not groups of people wearing them.

It's getting more organised.

At first it was the people discontent with the price of fuel and the policy that Macron enforced regarding the fuel prices. He had said that he was going to put 7 centimes on the price of diesel on a certain date when it was already at an all time high. When the jilet jeune protest it was mainly for that reason. Since then we've had strikes at universities and other secondry educational facilities to the extent that the kids came out on strike for 3 days in protest to the reforms to the education system. In secondary education now they can have upto 40 kids in a class and then to a limit 44 until they have to employ another prof.

Last week there were postal strikes and demonstartionst organised by recognised unions. This is the prefered way for Macron because he knows who to speak to. The Jilet Jeunes didn't have a leader and that's what made it so difficult for them to find a resolution. One thing regarding the first jilet jeune demos was that they had police sympathy and informed the police when and where they were protesting and they were controled to some extent in good humour but the jilet jeunes couldn't get anywhere near the facilities that refined the fuel. Those areas were controlled by tougher measures to make sure that the country could run.

There is much more to come from the protests like in the other big cities as this weekend showed. The demos weren't in Paris this weekend but other big cities had them. There isn't a cat in hells chance of Macron getting reelected.

[Ronners]

You've literally just described France at the moment.

I seriously cannot tell you how much people are hating Macron here. Yesterday thearmy was posted in Paris to stop the people damaging buildings and property. Now all protests in France have to registered any that aren't the police have the right to fine everyone 25€ for being there.

The fuel prices have been raised again and prices in general have gone up. The social changes are coming into force and are looking simular to the UK system. It's a better system but the French people will lose out.

Macron is not going to get elected again but he'll walk into a top job at the EU.

If only the press would report about the similarities.

In your quote frog you say that it's a better system but the French people will lose out, so who is it a better system for?

[ragingpup]

In or out of the EU, the heads of the European states are a band of warring brothers/sisters trying to screw the workers by pushing through their austerity programmes. In France that has met large scale resistance in various ways. In the UK some of that discontent has been expressed by people starting repetitive threads about it all on football websites (for some unknown reason). Once upon a time the UK was not in the EU, then it joined. The day after it joined, was there a noticeable difference to everyday life, other than it being easier to go on holiday abroad? I don't remember any tanks in the streets

Pretty much true. If we leave the EU soon, the conditions we see around us would not get better as the issues around us are caused by our government's choices.

It could be considerably worse however and not just on economic grounds. How will NHS and social care improve with a substantial decrease in care workers? In the desired utopia of substantially less immigrant workers doing jobs lower than the 30k cut off, who will be doing those jobs, in cafes, bars, restaurants, fields, streets etc?

[Exiletyke]

Pretty much true. If we leave the EU soon, the conditions we see around us would not get better as the issues around us are caused by our government's choices.

It could be considerably worse however and not just on economic grounds. How will NHS and social care improve with a substantial decrease in care workers? In the desired utopia of substantially less immigrant workers doing jobs lower than the 30k cut off, who will be doing those jobs, in cafes, bars, restaurants, fields, streets etc?

Because we as a nation will decide who we want to allow in [or at least that's how it should work]
What a poor argument when you ask who will be doing these jobs
I think what you mean is how will all those companies be able to get cheap labour [often below min wage] so that the tax payer can supplement their income with benefits thus resulting in the taxpayer subsidising great numbers of these so called "businesses"

[ragingpup]

Because we as a nation will decide who we want to allow in [or at least that's how it should work]
What a poor argument when you ask who will be doing these jobs
I think what you mean is how will all those companies be able to get cheap labour [often below min wage] so that the tax payer can supplement their income with benefits thus resulting in the taxpayer subsidising great numbers of these so called "businesses"

No I don't Exile. I mean employers like the NHS and council social services which pay above at or above national minimum wage but are extremely demanding jobs, long hours and are propped up on immigrant workers that will fall below the 30k that the government has set as a mimimum wage for entry (if they go through with that).

Likewise, in the service sector the pay is at minimum wage but is again largely dominated by immigrant workers.

You could argue that in reducing the immigrant workforce here, you will be forcing employers to increase their wages. Is that what you think will happen? With the conservative government?

If you are supporting creating this problem, what do you see as the solution to it?

[gm_gm]

No I don't Exile. I mean employers like the NHS and council social services which pay above at or above national minimum wage but are extremely demanding jobs, long hours and are propped up on immigrant workers that will fall below the 30k that the government has set as a mimimum wage for entry (if they go through with that).

Likewise, in the service sector the pay is at minimum wage but is again largely dominated by immigrant workers.

You could argue that in reducing the immigrant workforce here, you will be forcing employers to increase their wages. Is that what you think will happen? With the conservative government?

If you are supporting creating this problem, what do you see as the solution to it?

some of theses "immigrant workers" are on between £100,000 - 250,000 a year!

[ragingpup]

some of theses "immigrant workers" are on between £100,000 - 250,000 a year!

Lol. Good luck to them. But I think the jobs we'll have trouble filling are on considerably less than that!

[Exiletyke]

some of theses "immigrant workers" are on between £100,000 - 250,000 a year!

Who do you mean?
Hope they're paying the appropriate tax

[Exiletyke]

No I don't Exile. I mean employers like the NHS and council social services which pay above at or above national minimum wage but are extremely demanding jobs, long hours and are propped up on immigrant workers that will fall below the 30k that the government has set as a mimimum wage for entry (if they go through with that).

Likewise, in the service sector the pay is at minimum wage but is again largely dominated by immigrant workers.

You could argue that in reducing the immigrant workforce here, you will be forcing employers to increase their wages. Is that what you think will happen? With the conservative government?

If you are supporting creating this problem, what do you see as the solution to it?

As long as benefits are paid to prop up so called businesses instead of paying inadequate wages, the problem will continue
just so we can all have a cup of coffee which by the way is not cheap is it?