Thirty seven wasted years.

[Dubbag]

Please note that the UK is not in the Eurozone. Fortunately, we still have our own currency as we opted not to join the Eurozone, which gives us the best of both worlds, our own currency and membership of the EU. It just emphasises to me that many just don’t understand the EU and how it works or how beneficial it has been for our economy.

Good post Kettering baggie..

[WBA123]

As a PE teacher for 37 years I feel that I wasted my time trying to inculcate fair play into my students. By this I mean that I told them to accept victory and defeat in the same manner, with respect for the result and for the opposition. Compare that with what is happening after the Referendum Vote. The result hasn't been accepted and little or no respect given by those who lost. Is this the correct example to be setting the young of today? I don't think so. I don't care what the refendum was about, it was what it was and the result was what it was. End of!

Hello LB,

As you know we have a difference of opinion, but that's healthy in a functioning democracy. In a functioning democracy you can question the decisions made by our politicians and law makers, its a fluid process.

My issue is not who won or lost, I think that's irrelevant because we're all losing right now. My issue is that I believe the Leave vote received the most votes because they made a number of misleading and untruthful statements to the public.

Would the leave vote have won had people have fully known that trillions of £'s worth of assets would be transferred overseas, that we would stockpiling medicines and some people would be fearful that life saving pharmaceuticals might not be available to them? Would they have voted leave without the £350m per week nonsense to the NHS? Would they have voted leave if they knew we could control EU immigration? Would they have voted leave if they knew that getting a deal wouldn't be the 'easiest' deal to make in history as so many pro leave politicians and commentators told us?

There is still no plan from Boris/Farage/Rees-Mogg etc. Those three are easily the most selfish and unprincipled politicians we have. Multi millionaires who look after their party second and themselves first, with the national interest a distant third.

I will never just accept a leave vote because its not in the national interest, in my opinion. So I will always vote and support pro European parties - that is my democratic right. Just like I imagine had it been 52-48 the other way those 3 charlatons would have still campaigned to leave.

We all have our opinions and we're all entitled to them, mine is pretty simple...I can't think of one tangible benefit of leaving the EU.

[Leicesterbaggie]

As you say 123, we are on different sides of the political spectrum but you must agree that many, on both sides, have acted in in a dishonourable manner.

It is no longer a party issue but a Remain or Leave issue. So many have acted dishonourably. You mention Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg but what about the likes of Soubrey. I have no problem with her leaving the Tory Party but I do take exception to her remaining as an MP. Don't tell me that she was voted in for her personality or charisma; she was voted in as a Tory. When she left the party she should have done the honourable thing and given up her parliamentary seat. Not only that, she represented a constituency that voted above the national average to leave. She was supposedly representing them and she, more than most, has done her damnest to thwart us leaving. There's no chance of her representing them again. Never mind, she can always get a job in the EU, her intention all the time.

The problem is, I'm a simple soul. When I vote I expect the outcome, no matter what it is, to be honoured and implemented. I was promised by both parties that is what they would do and they haven't. I can't see myself, like so many others, voting again. What's the point?

[WBA1955]

I do agree with most of those points Kettering. Revoking Article 50 is a massive slap in the face to the 17.4 Million so for me its not an option but then again neither are these watered down options parliament is debating as we might as well stay where we are.

I think this has really demonstrated how inept so many of our political class are across so many parties that we are where we are now. Surely this is telling us that the majority of the public require something much better and different to what these tired out old parties can offer? I think its also told us how out of touch the establishment is with the people its meant to represent. But, yes, the division is sad and has been all engineered by many of our MP's who across the board deserve to suffer at the next election.

I do agree though that at some point future generations will wonder what all this nonsense was about as its all 'rules'. We want to buy and sell with Europe and they with us. Seems simple really

People are suddenly shocked at what i have been saying for years. Whatever you own or whatever you think your social standing is in life, the powers that be look down on you as peasants. Muck what they have got on their shoes.
Who do you think you are to say how the country should be run?
They didn't want to give us the vote in the first place, working classes weren't allowed to vote until the 19th century, women weren't allowed until the 20th.
Blacks in Alabama were treated better.
It makes me laugh to see people waving the Union flag, saying GSTQ, and proud to be British.
It means nothing.
All we were good for was feeding the cannons and the factories, they don't really want to give you a pension, they are hoping you die first.
Anyway, i am glad people have finally seen how corrupt this country really is. Germany cost millions of lives in two catastrophic wars and now we should be bed chums with them.

If the government overide a peoples vote, ( because really we are all plebs) then i will never vote again.

Tory, Labour, Liberal, finished with the lot of them.

[WBA123]

I think this is part of my problem with all of this. Some people that voted Remain seem to have adopted some form of intellectual superiority in knowing what is best for everyone in the future as they gaze in to their crystal balls. Then we have people who have posted on here claiming that many voted because they are simply racists. I can't even be bothered to respond to pointless posts claiming the latter.

One of my key reasons for wanting out is that I can't see any bright future for the Euro zone so why be part of something that's failing?

Its growth compared to the USA and Asia has been incredibly poor. The debt to GDP ratio with countries such as Greece, Italy and Portugal carry is scary. Germany has just posted its worst economic performance since 2012. Put simply, it's a political project run by bureaucrats who have used the Euro for purposes it simply wasn't designed for. They want one federal government, one single currency, but none of the responsibility of a national debt. This might all work fine when there are no stresses, the economy is doing well and there is general agreement, but it just will not work in times of severe stress.

America is lowering taxes and Europe is raising them which will mean the strengthening of the US dollar. America is also raising interest rates, whilst Europe is doing nothing and that has the same effect: a stronger dollar. America's economy is booming, Europe's is static and in trouble due to constant political uncertainty and its seeming inability to resolve anything. America is talking about allowing billions of dollars to be repatriated free of tax and Trump's record on manifesto pledges is pretty good so where will that leave economies such as Ireland potentially standing to lose billions of dollars to US banks?

This of course may well all be wrong but please don't assume you know what's best for everyone else as we are all entitled to our opinions. Personally, I feel our future is much better being completely independent of the Eurozone and being more aligned to the dollar if we are talking future prosperity but that is just my 2 cents worth.

Hello Stripes,

Interesting theory, although I don't use a crystal ball - I use respected forecasters and the govt's own Brexit dept to give me an idea of how Brexit will impact us economically.

I find some of your statements a bit misleading;

America is 'booming'...?
Inequality is rising, wage growth is declining and their stock market had their worst year for a decade last year. Trump's trade disputes are creating uncertainty and negatively affecting the agricultural and automotive industry. The % of Americans living in poverty has risen from 12% to 14% under Trump. There are bright things happening such as low unemployment, but the majority of low and middle paid workers aren't seeing any benefits.

EU Failing?
They have posted growth every year since 2012 and every member state posted growth in 2018. Italy's was the lowest at 1.1%, Irelands was highest at 7.8%. FYI Japan's growth was 1.1%, USA was 2.9% and the EU as a whole was 2.1%. Every member are forecasted to post growth again in 2019. In fact the lowest growth forecast for all members in 2019 is the UK. We're going to be the ones bringing growth down this year and have an even lower growth figure than Italy if the forecasts are correct!

Greece, Italy and Portugal
Greece's economic forecast has been adjusted upwards to 2.5% after a strong final 2 quarters of 2018.
Portugal are forecast 2% growth in 2019 and 2020 and their debt to GDP ratio is declining.
Granted, Italy do have problems, predominantly brought on by their inept government rather than the EU.

One impact on the EU revising down growth forecasts is because of our useless parliament and Brexit. Which has created uncertainty across the continent. However 2.1% growth in 2018 was a pretty good result considering the uncertainty that Brexit is creating.

[WBA123]

As you say 123, we are on different sides of the political spectrum but you must agree that many, on both sides, have acted in in a dishonourable manner.

It is no longer a party issue but a Remain or Leave issue. So many have acted dishonourably. You mention Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg but what about the likes of Soubrey. I have no problem with her leaving the Tory Party but I do take exception to her remaining as an MP. Don't tell me that she was voted in for her personality or charisma; she was voted in as a Tory. When she left the party she should have done the honourable thing and given up her parliamentary seat. Not only that, she represented a constituency that voted above the national average to leave. She was supposedly representing them and she, more than most, has done her damnest to thwart us leaving. There's no chance of her representing them again. Never mind, she can always get a job in the EU, her intention all the time.

The problem is, I'm a simple soul. When I vote I expect the outcome, no matter what it is, to be honoured and implemented. I was promised by both parties that is what they would do and they haven't. I can't see myself, like so many others, voting again. What's the point?

Soubry campaigned in the last election as a remainer, however she still voted in favour to envoke article 50, she respected the referendum result.

Again, we have different opinions, but I have a lot of respect for her. She is the most principled Tory I've ever seen. And when she stands up in parliament and says that there are Tories who don't care about the national interest because they have gold plated pensions, and that she cares about every one of her constituents - I believe her.

The easy thing for Soubry to have done is towed the party line, voted how she was whipped to do and keep her safe seat for as long as she wanted to. She has more chance of being voted out at the next election as part of the Ind Group, than had she have done the easy thing. That's because she is principled and defiant in the face of death threats and every other piece of nonsense spouted her way in the press and on social media.

I've joined the Independent Group now. I'm disillusioned with Labour and Corbyn in particular.

Meanwhile Rees-Mogg and Boris have just btw voted for Theresa May's deal, the same deal they said was worse than staying in the EU and would make us a 'slave state'....Don't trust 'em!!

[boingy]

As a PE teacher for 37 years I feel that I wasted my time trying to inculcate fair play into my students. By this I mean that I told them to accept victory and defeat in the same manner, with respect for the result and for the opposition. Compare that with what is happening after the Referendum Vote. The result hasn't been accepted and little or no respect given by those who lost. Is this the correct example to be setting the young of today? I don't think so. I don't care what the refendum was about, it was what it was and the result was what it was. End of!

Its the right way, respect for results. Anything other than that is arrogant and totally selfish. That's the society we have now. A lot of people don't even understand basic principles. You taught the right way.

[Leicesterbaggie]

If your figures are correct 123, that our rate of growth is the lowest in the EU, lower even than Italy, then surely they would want to get rid of us. This does not appear to be the case!

[WBA123]

If your figures are correct 123, that our rate of growth is the lowest in the EU, lower even than Italy, then surely they would want to get rid of us. This does not appear to be the case!

Our growth is forecasted to be lowest in 2019 than any other EU country.

But growth is a tricky measurement. The size of the EU economy is so huge that a 0.4% growth could be an astronomically larger compared to a small African or Asian country who might have 10% growth for example.

And I do think their patience is waning IMO.