O/T 2 tier policing.

[swaledale]

Loving one’s fellow humans is a good thing but I don’t think ‘we’ have moved as far as you think. I can’t think of the last time I employed a contractor who didn’t demonstrate derogatory language or prejudicial behaviour of some sort against ‘minorities’ (including those who themselves are minorities), these days the public pronouncements are less but the nudge nudge wink wink element is still widely in evidence depending on the company we keep.

Funny that, because when I was working non of my contractors behaved or said such stuff, neither have the people I have employed in my home to do work. But then there are undoubtedly "bubbles" where the old ways and views remain, most people I ahve met or know however at the very least understand what's acceptable and what is not.

Mind you given some of your statements posted on here, I'm not entirely surprised that you encounter people willing to express such views, as you say its the company one keeps and perhaps a willingness to entertain such views? Anyone expressing such sentiments to me would and on the rare occasion it has happens have received a strong rebuttal. But then maybe its clear from my words and actions that I don't agree with such sentiments?

[Andy_Faber]

Could you back this up with some facts? What exactly is it that you can no longer say or do without becoming a ‘goner’?
So we’ve, largely, moved on from approval/acceptance of derogatory language and prejudicial behaviour towards people of different cultures, colour, gender and ***ual orientation. Isn’t that a good thing?
So how else has your behaviour been impacted by those you regard as being overly ‘PC’?
I genuinely don’t know…I mean, shortly before coming on holiday I went to see Ben Elton. He ripped into everyone and everything…from Farage/Reform UK to those who try and implement ‘cancel culture’ etc. He seems to be doing okay…just extended his tour I think…so far from being a ‘goner’.

Sorry but I’ll stick to talking around Tricky’s original post, offering anecdotes or other story links tends to set some people off

[Geoff Parkstone]

Swale: "Those that have been cancelled has been down to their actions or a failure to recognise societal norms have moved on."

An interesting hypothesis. Have societal norms really moved on - or has a (significant) minority of society adopted different norms? The fact that this is a very vocal minority certainly helps make it sound like a new norm but I'd contend that the new norms you see have not been bought into by many.

You may have contempt for those not accepting the changes that you clearly are comfortable with but I don't see it that way out there in the real world. Clearly older generations by and large remain less tolerant and, as these changes (and cancellations of those not buying in to the changes) are very much driven by social media it could be some time before widespread acceptance is achieved.

I (and I think Andy touched on this above) also have seen widespread rubbishing of the new norm: racism and genderism remain prevelant across all strata.

So have societal norms truly moved on? I'd propose not really, but rather they are being evolved by a vocal generation but we are far from seeing a quantum shift in the majority.

[MadAmster]

GP, here's my thoughts on just one of today's huge points of differences.

Men who fully transition to or self identify as a woman.
I have no problems with them doing that and support their doing it. I'm more than happy to use female pronouns when referring to them. Not an issue. Above that I see 2 different cases.
I know one trans DJ who has gone the whole hog and now has a vagina instead of testes and *****. She is completely accepted by the vast majority on the scene. Uses female toilets. I have no issue with that. She's not likely to want to become a sports star so, in this case, whether she should enter male or female categories is irrelevant. If, however, she did decide to compete, I'd have difficulty with her competing in female events. Even if she has had hormone treatment reducing testosterone levels to whatever random level the various sports bodies have chosen for their particular sport. The reason? She'd had 40 something years benefit of being able to build bigger muscles, have greater bone density etc. She would have an unfair advantage over CIS women.

Those who self identify and still have testes and *****? No women's toilets to be used to remove any threat of danger to CIS women/girls. Definitely no female sports for reasons explained above.

When women started to do organised sports, they had to set up their own sporting bodies to organise events. Why should Trans be treated any differently to how women got into organised sports?

Some will agree with my sentiments, some will disagree, others will partially agree. I'm all for fairness but, as far as I can see, being fair to trans women in allowing them to compete in CIS women's events is being unfair to CIS women. For that reason I am against it.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I would agree 100% with this.

[Trickytreesreds]

Mm, you mean groups like for example men and white people who lets be clear have enjoyed considerable privilege and power and have for many years behaved in an unacceptable way to people that were "different" either by reason of ***, race, religion etc. are now complaining that they are having to show a bit of respect and understanding to these "different" people?

IN this instance the guy is being totally unprofessional on a deliberately provocative and lets be real here, on a media outlet whose sole aim is to reinforce prejudice and stereotyping in order to stir up resentment amongst those who are only to eager to blame "other" people for whatever is wrong in life.

There are undoubtedly arguments that in certain areas there are people, the "jobsworths" who delight in being over zealous, but that's the case in any area of life. But then there are many examples and instances which demonstrate that outdated attitudes are still prevalent and especially in the Met Police where there has been some truly shocking examples against both people on the grounds of their race, *** or ***uality.


Those that have been cancelled has been down to their actions or a failure to recognise societal norms have moved on.

So you would rather a whistle blower said nothing?
Its all kept in house and under the carpet?
Do you say exactly the same for every nurse/ doctor, who publicly blew the whistle on a NHS coverup, or bad practice?

Is that unprofessional, or fuelling provacation?
You sound like a military state supporter.

[Trickytreesreds]

GP, here's my thoughts on just one of today's huge points of differences.

Men who fully transition to or self identify as a woman.
I have no problems with them doing that and support their doing it. I'm more than happy to use female pronouns when referring to them. Not an issue. Above that I see 2 different cases.
I know one trans DJ who has gone the whole hog and now has a vagina instead of testes and *****. She is completely accepted by the vast majority on the scene. Uses female toilets. I have no issue with that. She's not likely to want to become a sports star so, in this case, whether she should enter male or female categories is irrelevant. If, however, she did decide to compete, I'd have difficulty with her competing in female events. Even if she has had hormone treatment reducing testosterone levels to whatever random level the various sports bodies have chosen for their particular sport. The reason? She'd had 40 something years benefit of being able to build bigger muscles, have greater bone density etc. She would have an unfair advantage over CIS women.

Those who self identify and still have testes and *****? No women's toilets to be used to remove any threat of danger to CIS women/girls. Definitely no female sports for reasons explained above.

When women started to do organised sports, they had to set up their own sporting bodies to organise events. Why should Trans be treated any differently to how women got into organised sports?

Some will agree with my sentiments, some will disagree, others will partially agree. I'm all for fairness but, as far as I can see, being fair to trans women in allowing them to compete in CIS women's events is being unfair to CIS women. For that reason I am against it.

I will use my common analogy from experiance,
In Thailand, trans(ladyboys) are an accepted part of society.
Why? . Because they really do want and believe they are women; They undergo a long and painful journey to fully transition, with the surgery being fully private funded by themselves. They simply want to be a girl and wish they had been born one.
I have never been fooled by a trans man in the west, whilst in the east I could be, if not being very observant.

The main difference is, ask a lady boy if they are a lady boy and they will answer with an honest yes. They won't throw a hissy fit, scream you've offended their pro nouns, nor will they demand the law is used to clobber you, for your daring to suggest any other.

You will also find many Thai women are jealous of their looks as well.
Society respects them, for doing what they should do. Fit in , with no fuss or drama

[Andy_Faber]

I would agree 100% with this.

As do I

[MadAmster]

I will use my common analogy from experiance,
In Thailand, trans(ladyboys) are an accepted part of society.
Why? . Because they really do want and believe they are women; They undergo a long and painful journey to fully transition, with the surgery being fully private funded by themselves. They simply want to be a girl and wish they had been born one.
I have never been fooled by a trans man in the west, whilst in the east I could be, if not being very observant.

The main difference is, ask a lady boy if they are a lady boy and they will answer with an honest yes. They won't throw a hissy fit, scream you've offended their pro nouns, nor will they demand the law is used to clobber you, for your daring to suggest any other.

You will also find many Thai women are jealous of their looks as well.
Society respects them, for doing what they should do. Fit in , with no fuss or drama

Seems, in general terms, we agree. However, you have steered well clear of commenting on trans women demanding, and they do demand, to take part in CIS women's sports events. Would you agree that it would be unfair competition due to the pre transition years giving them, naturally, more muscle and greater bone density?

[ramAnag]

Loving one’s fellow humans is a good thing but I don’t think ‘we’ have moved as far as you think. I can’t think of the last time I employed a contractor who didn’t demonstrate derogatory language or prejudicial behaviour of some sort against ‘minorities’ (including those who themselves are minorities), these days the public pronouncements are less but the nudge nudge wink wink element is still widely in evidence depending on the company we keep.

I don’t think that answers or even addresses the question I asked. What is it that you or anyone on here is now prevented from doing or saying that makes them a victim of the ‘PC brigade’ or ‘cancel culture’ and hence, in your words, a ‘goner’?
Okay…you’d be challenged nowadays for use of such terms as ‘n*gger’, ‘w*g’, ‘sp*stic’…or for controlling women/bullying those who are gay etc, but that, imo, is a good thing.
So what is it that worries you? (Apart of course from these damned ‘Â’s…now if you could get rid of them you’d probably go up in everyone’s estimation. )

P.S. Like Swale, I can’t think of the last time I employed a contractor who DID demonstrate derogatory or prejudicial language towards minorities.