O/T Labours cunning plan - again !!

[frogmiller]

If the argument is that there is too much immigration (legal and illegal), how do I prove them wrong? It's an opinion.

I tend to think there is more immigration for work purposes than we actually need and that we need to invest heavily to skill up and incentivise UK workers into key positions such as care work, building etc. But I can see the difficulties in getting either us taxpayers or employers willing to cough up the huge amount of money needed, and to pay the incentives needed and so we will keep defaulting to immigration to do these jobs.

Labour are trying to plug an initiative to do this at the moment by stopping immigration visas for care work and insisting that there are enough care workers in the system already? Not sure what research they've based this on, but quite a big risk with many of our elderlies in the care system.

It's hugely complicated and until we have a definite, comprehensive and well funded proposal to fill the gaps in the workforce that immigrants are taking, then I will likely side on the opinion that we need immigrant labour to fill vacancies and even though there is more immigration than I would like, I can't see any alternatives. Extend pension age to 75? Force ex pats to return and work in the UK until they die? Makes just as much sense of forcing lazy buggers to come and teach my students.

It is hugely complicated as you rightly say and you make some fantastic comments.

I used to work with immigrants that came to France with no qualifications but they wee mainly legal.

The main problem was for them to understand the need to arrive to the course on time. The lacc of respect for those wanting to advance. The complete lack of basic maths and French and the over populated areas where the young lads were put in which were on the whole high crime spots.
The drug use, the selling of drugs and the need for these kids to be accepted by anyone is a major issue.

If those steps to facilitate education and social acceptence aren't in place before unskilled immigrents arrive then no matter what happens then the vast majority of those kids will always be in trouble and a drain on resources.

I ain't coming back - my French pension has had more contributions than my British one.

[ragingpup]

Some excellent points in there raging. Trouble is the immigrants aren't going to England for work they are going for the benefits.
Stop the benefits stop the boats.
They have a safe place in Europe they don?t need to risk a tricky journey in a dinghy.
All young men of a fighting age what could go wrong?

I hear this a lot but if they are only coming for UK benefits, why are they leaving France to come here when France has higher welfare benefits than the UK?

[Back of the net]

I hear this a lot but if they are only coming for UK benefits, why are they leaving France to come here when France has higher welfare benefits than the UK?

That?s a good question but they wouldn?t come if we didn?t give them benefits though as they would stay in France.
So if you are correct it seems like it?s a planned invasion for the want of a better word.
What?s so appealing about the UK if they get better benefits in France ermmm interesting indeed.

[KerrAvon]

Some facts to take into account:

Net immigration into the UK in the year before last was around 750 000. Boat crossings came to only around 41 000 (It's a while since I looked at the figures so I may be a bit out). The net migration figures coming out in a couple of weeks are going to show that net migration fell by a significant amount last year.

There has always been illegal migration into the UK (and there probably always will be). The growth in boat crossings simply reflects that the back of the lorry route was made much more difficult by millions being spent to deter it.

A person arriving in the UK will struggle to get a visa if they can't provide evidence to show that they can fund their stay. In addition - most visas are marked 'NRPF', which means ?no resort to public funds?. In other words, the holder isn't eligible for benefits.

A person applying for asylum in the UK receives 'benefits' in the form of basic accommodation, basic meals and ?8.66 per week for their outgoings. They aren?t permitted to work - the theory (unsupported by any evidence of which I am aware) being that allowing them to do so would encourage others.

It seems slightly daft to me to suggest that immigrants are coming here for the benefits. Are we to believe that people will pay ?thousands to people smugglers and risk their lives in the channel for ?8.66 per week and the right to share a room in former hotel and eat crap food?

[KerrAvon]

That?s a good question but they wouldn?t come if we didn?t give them benefits though as they would stay in France.
So if you are correct it seems like it?s a planned invasion for the want of a better word.
What?s so appealing about the UK if they get better benefits in France ermmm interesting indeed.

When they are asked the response is generally that they already have family in the UK or that they can speak English but can't speak French. I suppose that is part of the price that we pay for our imperial past.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Starmers speech was quite skilful to be honest

Stuck to the script, no mention of boat people and focused on the care sector as a target, skilfully avoiding the farming sector which also employs a lot of immigrant labour.

[CAMiller]

Starmers speech was quite skilful to be honest

Stuck to the script, no mention of boat people and focused on the care sector as a target, skilfully avoiding the farming sector which also employs a lot of immigrant labour.

Maybe the problem lies in the fact that Britain pays benefits too easily to 'its own' and therefore there is no incentive for them to work and thus, hard, low paid manual jobs have to be filled by immigrants who are wiling to work. QED. Tens/hundreds of thousands of them keep US agriculture alive.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Maybe the problem lies in the fact that Britain pays benefits too easily to 'its own' and therefore there is no incentive for them to work and thus, hard, low paid manual jobs have to be filled by immigrants who are wiling to work. QED. Tens/hundreds of thousands of them keep US agriculture alive.

Certainly one of the factors

[Stovicmiller]

Some facts to take into account:

Net immigration into the UK in the year before last was around 750 000. Boat crossings came to only around 41 000 (It's a while since I looked at the figures so I may be a bit out). The net migration figures coming out in a couple of weeks are going to show that net migration fell by a significant amount last year.

There has always been illegal migration into the UK (and there probably always will be). The growth in boat crossings simply reflects that the back of the lorry route was made much more difficult by millions being spent to deter it.

A person arriving in the UK will struggle to get a visa if they can't provide evidence to show that they can fund their stay. In addition - most visas are marked 'NRPF', which means ?no resort to public funds?. In other words, the holder isn't eligible for benefits.

A person applying for asylum in the UK receives 'benefits' in the form of basic accommodation, basic meals and ?8.66 per week for their outgoings. They aren?t permitted to work - the theory (unsupported by any evidence of which I am aware) being that allowing them to do so would encourage others.

It seems slightly daft to me to suggest that immigrants are coming here for the benefits. Are we to believe that people will pay ?thousands to people smugglers and risk their lives in the channel for ?8.66 per week and the right to share a room in former hotel and eat crap food?

. If possible can you find out where they shop because the ones I used to see at manvers were always smartly dressed with mobile phones . They were making 8.66 go along way.

[animallittle3]

Well what's happening in my opinion is that Farage has put Labour on notice following the recent elections and they are reacting to the threat from Reform .

Immigration is a classic wedge issue getting used by Farage knowing full well it potentially eats in to Labour and Tory vote share .

The Tories can hardly criticise anything when it comes to immigration given their record in government and Labour especially under Blair aren't exactly known for tough border control and low immigration .

We've heard tough talk about immigration for over 20 years now and nothing much seems to change but the difference today is that Farage is becoming a real threat that hurts the established Uniparty status quo .

Starmer is in a bit of a hole with this , his metropolitan liberal middle class vote aren't too happy he's trying to dance to Farage's tune and if he does nowt he'll be in grave danger of losing seats in the old industrial working class towns such as Rotherham and Barnsley .

The Metropolitan Liberals could shift to the Dems or Greens and the working class if they haven't already to Reform .

A bit of a rock and a hard place for the PM .

Interesting times .