Match Thread vs. Boreham Wood 23.11.21 [NL]

[upthemaggies]

Dijstra OG was a nightmare, but I don’t think there’s any way we would have gone up that season if we’d made the playoffs,

My three “Sliding Doors” moments would be…

1. Losing Howard Wilkinson and replacing him with Fat Larry in 1983. Or was losing Raddy and signing McDonagh the biggest mistake?

2. Buying Tony Agana and not Brian Deane in 1991

3. Losing to Macclesfield on Boxing Day, 2018

And if I had to cite a non-Notts event, it would be the introduction of the Bosman ruling - which seemingly doomed us to several decades of journeymen trading places every few seasons.

We now know no.1 only happened because Dunnett wouldn't give Wilko a few hundred extra pounds on his annual salary. We would have had a much better season with Wilko than Lloyd, no doubt about it. Would have required 9 more points to stay up but seeing what he went on to do with Sheff Wed and Leeds, he probably would have managed it.

As for staying up in 1991/92, As much as I love the man, the fact is that Warnock hasn't kept any other club up in the top flight, so I'd say persuading him to stay and not go to Chelsea was the biggest mistake in hindsight (assuming Pavis did play a part in Warnock's decision). There wouldn't have been a great deal of time for a new manager to come in and get us ship shape but if we'd got David Pleat - who Pavis was apparently quite keen on as Warnocks replacement in 1993 - then his experience and our impetus at that time might have got us over the line - we only needed 5 points more than we got to become PL founder members.

I think Sammy McIlroy made it to a 2nd interview in 1995 but Murphy got the job instead.

As a side note, Allardyce was interviewed for the job when Warnock got it. Obviously the right choice was made at the time but that does tell us that Big Sam could have come in earlier than he did, being on Pavis' radar and Sam being keen on the job.

[laddo]

Dijstra OG was a nightmare, but I don’t think there’s any way we would have gone up that season if we’d made the playoffs,

My three “Sliding Doors” moments would be…

1. Losing Howard Wilkinson and replacing him with Fat Larry in 1983. Or was losing Raddy and signing McDonagh the biggest mistake?

2. Buying Tony Agana and not Brian Deane in 1991

3. Losing to Macclesfield on Boxing Day, 2018

And if I had to cite a non-Notts event, it would be the introduction of the Bosman ruling - which seemingly doomed us to several decades of journeymen trading places every few seasons.

As for 2. I've heard this for decades now. Was Brian Deane actually available? This has been confirmed we could have signed him? Sheff United said take your pick for £680k-£750K and we chose Agana?

I hope not.

[uysapie]

Dijstra OG was a nightmare, but I don’t think there’s any way we would have gone up that season if we’d made the playoffs,

My three “Sliding Doors” moments would be…

1. Losing Howard Wilkinson and replacing him with Fat Larry in 1983. Or was losing Raddy and signing McDonagh the biggest mistake?

2. Buying Tony Agana and not Brian Deane in 1991

3. Losing to Macclesfield on Boxing Day, 2018

And if I had to cite a non-Notts event, it would be the introduction of the Bosman ruling - which seemingly doomed us to several decades of journeymen trading places every few seasons.

I would add selling our 2 best players to build the new stands.

[kill_the_drum]

I would add selling our 2 best players to build the new stands.

A recent nail was Cotterill leaving after promotion.
We had so much momentum going into league 1 that I genuinely thought we’d go up again.
The Coventry play offs still stick in my throat as well.

[magpie_mania]

Well Bournemouth had a billionaire owner, i am not sure about Brentford, but i doubt the chairman was short of a penny.

The fact is folks the game is all about money, the reason Notts have fell down the leagues over the last 20 years is, the owners since pavis have not had 2 shillings to rub together, we have nearly gone out of business on numerous occasions

Example take our neighbours forest have had losses over 25 million in the last 5 years, none of our owners could get even close to pocketing that loss

I think that these people fall into at least 5 categories

Owners - happy to run the business without making profit or loss
Investors - happy to put money in looking for a return
Benefactors - happy to put money in knowing it probably won't be returned, but letting others run the club
Benefactors but dictators - putting money in but wanting absolute control
Rogues - e.g. Munto

You seem to want the third, but why would anyone want to plough cash in unless they were very rich Notts supporters? I see what you mean about Bournemouth etc, but surely all L1 and L2 teams don't have owners like that.

[ncfcog]

Brentford owner Matthew Benham made his money in professional sports gambling, like the owner of Brighton. Interesting article on him here:

https://huddleup.substack.com/p/the-...ho-turned-700k

I found this particularly noteworthy (my use of bold):
"While the top clubs in the world were investing millions of dollars in their youth academies, Brentford FC decided to eliminate theirs completely. Instead, they relied on a “B team” of 17-to-20-year-olds that had been rendered useless by other clubs.

"Why? Because Brentford believed you had to give a young player at least 35 games before determining his value, but the richest teams in the world didn’t have the time, patience, or appropriate infrastructure to do that. As a small club willing to experiment, Brentford did."

Given that he reportedly invested $10 million in a Danish club to see if his moneyball method worked, the guy clearly is operating on a different level to our owners.

If anyone wants to understand more about the Brentford model and Benham then it’s well worth trying to get a copy of “The xG Philosophy”. Benham’s initial intention was to use data to improve his return on the large betting syndicate he ran. Then he realised the value in signing players whose value was low, usually due to them being stuck in a PL academy, develop them and then sell them when they are over valued. He would then use that money to fund his next crop of hopefuls. (Rúben, Roberts, Sam, Vincent, Knight, Francis, Nemane etc). Has proved to be a good model for Brentford, could take Notts a little bit longer to reach those heady heights but the foundations appear to be in place.

[Davy500]

If anyone wants to understand more about the Brentford model and Benham then it’s well worth trying to get a copy of “The xG Philosophy”. Benham’s initial intention was to use data to improve his return on the large betting syndicate he ran. Then he realised the value in signing players whose value was low, usually due to them being stuck in a PL academy, develop them and then sell them when they are over valued. He would then use that money to fund his next crop of hopefuls. (Rúben, Roberts, Sam, Vincent, Knight, Francis, Nemane etc). Has proved to be a good model for Brentford, could take Notts a little bit longer to reach those heady heights but the foundations appear to be in place.

Very interesting discussion
I still think last time both us and brentford were in league 1, around 2013 time, Brentford had far more money available to them than us. Also league 1 level was about right for them at the time, there was no sense of under achievement, so the owner had far more time to experiment with ideas, without any real pressure from supporters

The idea of supporting younger players is definetely the way forward, it worked for us in the past with the likes of jonhson, short and draper, even though that was not intentional

The fact is it is capable of being successfull in the long term, which is the major disadvantage as it will take many years probably 5 to 10 years to materialise .
The biggest obstacle for Notts is getting out of the National League, if we could do that in the near future, i believe we would manage quite well back in the football league

[laddo]

Previous good little debate on this thread as to whether we should be happy or not with a point away at high flying Borehamwood predominantly based around their very limited level of support Vs their league position.

There away support in particular is so low their was no segregation in the covered terrace behind the goal so fans of both clubs were housed in there which made for a few tasty and funny comments. I haven't experienced that since a game between Northern Spirit and Melbourne in 2000.

What I didn't realise was how closely connected (and importantly funded) they were with nearby Arsenal FC. Although this was understandably secondhand information it came from a very reputable source at yesterday's game. Doesn't change the lack of support, income from crowds nor how well they and their manager have done and are doing but it does change my viewpoint somewhat and explains to a degree their impressive results this season.