Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

Not been discussed as much as I?d expected here but Zelensky showed a lot of bravery standing up to those bullies in what IMO was clearly a setup, I also think he?s shown other statesmen that they don?t need to succumb to every American whim. I was sort of hoping Zelensky was going to pop out with ?Look Don. Just STFU for a minute?
Good to see Starmer (misnamed as Lord Starmer on newsfeeds where I currently am) at last taking the lead in subsequent discussions

My point Andy, was to those who like quoting history in here.
Take WW2. Was Hitler to blame? 75% yes.

After WW1 the Versailles treaty created the very conditions that lay the conditions for the fascists to rise.
The majority of that harshness, came from France. They sowed the very seeds that would lead to Frances re invasion 25 years later.

As the video showed, the west especially the US, promised Gorbachev not one inch eastward after the dismantling of the iron curtain.
Clinton certainly got his hands dirty on that one.
The the EU decided to stick its nose in.

Putin is a tyrant, we can all agree on that. But don't tell me this was all his doing, it wasn't.
Though RA seems to think I'm a Putin supporter for pointing historical facts out.

[ramAnag]

My point Andy, was to those who like quoting history in here.
Take WW2. Was Hitler to blame? 75% yes.

After WW1 the Versailles treaty created the very conditions that lay the conditions for the fascists to rise.
The majority of that harshness, came from France. They sowed the very seeds that would lead to Frances re invasion 25 years later.

As the video showed, the west especially the US, promised Gorbachev not one inch eastward after the dismantling of the iron curtain.
Clinton certainly got his hands dirty on that one.
The the EU decided to stick its nose in.

Putin is a tyrant, we can all agree on that. But don't tell me this was all his doing, it wasn't.
Though RA seems to think I'm a Putin supporter for pointing historical facts out.

Tricky, you can try and drag me into your disagreement with AF if you like, but when you resurrect our own disagreement from about ten days ago at least get the facts correct. I haven’t referred to you as a Putin supporter. I said you seemed to be trying to justify and excuse his actions. Another poster referred to you as a Putin apologist and I have to say that, each time you write, it does seem an increasingly well founded accusation.

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky, you can try and drag me into your disagreement with AF if you like, but when you resurrect our own disagreement from about ten days ago at least get the facts correct. I haven?t referred to you as a Putin supporter. I said you seemed to be trying to justify and excuse his actions. Another poster referred to you as a Putin apologist and I have to say that, each time you write, it does seem an increasingly well founded accusation.

so thats exactly what you was and are doing then?

When you cross the road or over take, do you look left/ right, or check your mirrors?
Sounds like you don't.

are you seriously going to deny the wests actions didn't help shape the whole situation?

[ramAnag]

so thats exactly what you was and are doing then?

When you cross the road or over take, do you look left/ right, or check your mirrors?
Sounds like you don't.

are you seriously going to deny the wests actions didn't help shape the whole situation?

I’m not even involving myself in this particular debate. I just find it fascinating that you feel the repeated need to defend and excuse Trump, Putin and now apparently, albeit to a lesser degree, Hitler all while comparing Starmer to Stalin.

Interesting perspective, but needless to say, not one I have much time for.

[Geoff Parkstone]

A prerequisite of being a doctor is being able to communicate?? Have you not heard the adage of doctors handwriting?

To balance things a bit, I also spent quite a bit of time in A&E / outpatients where the he customer balance seemed much more (30% maybe) with English not as first language

[ramAnag]

A prerequisite of being a doctor is being able to communicate?? Have you not heard the adage of doctors handwriting?

To balance things a bit, I also spent quite a bit of time in A&E / outpatients where the he customer balance seemed much more (30% maybe) with English not as first language

Yes indeed, but quality of handwriting has largely been surpassed in a system where most written instructions are now machine printed, whereas being able to make oneself understood verbally remains, imo, crucial for medical staff.

Whether it’s 10% or 30%, and I appreciate this will vary depending on locality, that is still a very long way from what was originally being suggested two or three evenings ago.

[Andy_Faber]

A prerequisite of being a doctor is being able to communicate?? Have you not heard the adage of doctors handwriting?

To balance things a bit, I also spent quite a bit of time in A&E / outpatients where the he customer balance seemed much more (30% maybe) with English not as first language

Yes it was A and E. I?ve mentioned my friends frustrations before, an Irish nurse who previously worked in Spain where she?d settled, came to UK (so an immigrant herself in both countries as it happens) but has now returned to Spain in try he same role

Point taken re handwriting

[Geoff Parkstone]

In that TTR is in effect mirroring the argument that the causes of WW2 were grounded in the settlement of WW1, he has a point. Russian "lebensraum" policy underpins the invasion, to liberate what it sees as it's people in Ukraine territory. This too is not unlike the sudetenland

The Russo-Ukrainian conflict is rooted in the dissolution of the Eastern bloc and Europe / USA were complicit in enabling that dissolution.

This doesn't justify the invasion but the parallels are interesting. Especially in the way Trump is reprising the Chamberlain role of appeasement of the aggressor. Let's hope Poland isn't the next tarfet

[Trickytreesreds]

In that TTR is in effect mirroring the argument that the causes of WW2 were grounded in the settlement of WW1, he has a point. Russian "lebensraum" policy underpins the invasion, to liberate what it sees as it's people in Ukraine territory. This too is not unlike the sudetenland

The Russo-Ukrainian conflict is rooted in the dissolution of the Eastern bloc and Europe / USA were complicit in enabling that dissolution.

This doesn't justify the invasion but the parallels are interesting. Especially in the way Trump is reprising the Chamberlain role of appeasement of the aggressor. Let's hope Poland isn't the next tarfet

Poland won;'t be , its in NATO.

The west needs to look in the mirror. If the roles had been reversed and Russia/USSR, had been creeping slowly west, then west would have done something similar.
Imagine East Germany invading west Germany, or vice versa Would the reactions have been the same? Germans would claim to have had the right to the same thing, re unification, but under which banner?

No matter what maddy says, the west has lied and welched as much as Russia on promises not to arm/ expand/ occupy territory that doesn't belong to them.

[MadAmster]

Poland won;'t be , its in NATO.

The west needs to look in the mirror. If the roles had been reversed and Russia/USSR, had been creeping slowly west, then west would have done something similar.
Imagine East Germany invading west Germany, or vice versa Would the reactions have been the same? Germans would claim to have had the right to the same thing, re unification, but under which banner?

No matter what maddy says, the west has lied and welched as much as Russia on promises not to arm/ expand/ occupy territory that doesn't belong to them.

What Maddy said was facts.

The West, as you put it, reacted to requests from Georgia and Ukraine in much the same way they reacted to requests from all the other former soviet satellites such as Romania, Hungary, Poland. Remember, it was the USSR/CCCP or whichever acronym you wish to give it, that dismantled its own area of influence, realising that many of the inhabitants of those satellites didn't want Russian dictatorship.

Are you suggesting that "the West" should have ignored their requests to join the freedom train?