O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[upthemaggies]

Show me the evidence to the contrary then?

100% of the evidence I've seen shows that vaccinated people were hospitalised and died at far lower rates than unvaccinated. All of it. Every paper, every statistic, every government, every country.

Where is the evidence against?

You've reframed the argument.
You were making out vaccines prevented hospitalisation and death, now you're saying they were "far lower". The ICU stats were showing percentage of vaccinated were increasing and unvaccinated going down, then they stopped publishing as people began pointing that out.
Why would they push boosters if this were not the case?

As I said, unvaxxed were disproportionately from poor backgrounds and poor health. Average age maybe suggests they'd avoided care homes and being put on the ventilators in the first wave, then eventually caught it as it spread through communities.
No argument vax stimulated an immune response but it waned after three weeks and then you had no protection within around 3 months. Hence vaxxed then getting ill and need for boosters with talk of giving them indefinitely. 3 or 4 every year, which caused a lot more people to become suspicious and ask questions.

An experiment is trial and error. You wait to see what happens before declaring it safe, not before. This vax was given the green light on the basis there was a global emergency and that there was no other treatment whatsoever available. On one side you've got a diversity of ideas as to what can be done to treat people, the other insisting there can only be one single solution with anybody who suggests otherwise censored and smeared.

[Elite_Pie]

The people working on the vaccine, were such experts. they used the spikes of the virus to develop the vaccine, rather than the core of the virus, which would have produced a stronger longer lasting vaccine.

You should have put them right. You're clearly wasted on here.

[Magpies1959]

I tried EP but I was payed off to keep quiet.

[BanjoPie]

You've reframed the argument.
You were making out vaccines prevented hospitalisation and death, now you're saying they were "far lower". The ICU stats were showing percentage of vaccinated were increasing and unvaccinated going down, then they stopped publishing as people began pointing that out.
Why would they push boosters if this were not the case?

As I said, unvaxxed were disproportionately from poor backgrounds and poor health. Average age maybe suggests they'd avoided care homes and being put on the ventilators in the first wave, then eventually caught it as it spread through communities.
No argument vax stimulated an immune response but it waned after three weeks and then you had no protection within around 3 months. Hence vaxxed then getting ill and need for boosters with talk of giving them indefinitely. 3 or 4 every year, which caused a lot more people to become suspicious and ask questions.

An experiment is trial and error. You wait to see what happens before declaring it safe, not before. This vax was given the green light on the basis there was a global emergency and that there was no other treatment whatsoever available. On one side you've got a diversity of ideas as to what can be done to treat people, the other insisting there can only be one single solution with anybody who suggests otherwise censored and smeared.

Just post the evidence to back up your case and if it is factual evidence them maybe we will believe it!

[upthemaggies]

You should have put them right. You're clearly wasted on here.

Spike causes cell and tissue damage, once you've got that in v!ta@l areas of the body you've got problems. Repair comes at a long term cost. it's the young who will pay the price for this and they were at no risk. We've done this, as well as tanking the economy and causing psychological damage just to basically prolong the lives of people who were already at or beyond life expectancy age and of those, the most likely to die sooner than later.

There are no solutions, only trade offs.

A small bunch of people have become extremely rich though.

[magpie_mania]

Spike causes cell and tissue damage, once you've got that in v!ta@l areas of the body you've got problems. Repair comes at a long term cost. it's the young who will pay the price for this and they were at no risk. We've done this, as well as tanking the economy and causing psychological damage just to basically prolong the lives of people who were already at or beyond life expectancy age and of those, the most likely to die sooner than later.

There are no solutions, only trade offs.

A small bunch of people have become extremely rich though.

Ah, get it now.

Let the older ones die. Reminds me of some other words, ' Let the bodies pile high'.

[upthemaggies]

Ah, get it now.

Let the older ones die. Reminds me of some other words, ' Let the bodies pile high'.

The alternative (Great Barrington) suggestion was to focus resources into protecting the vulnerable and allow the rest of us to gain natural immunity.

[Magpies1959]

It is strange how the people on here who love to lace into the Tories at any suggestion of dodgy deals for their mates, are standing shoulder to shoulder with huge phama companies that are making billions out of a vaccine that has been rushed out, without the usual rigorous tests, and causing harm to people who would have been fine without it.

[Elite_Pie]

It is strange how the people on here who love to lace into the Tories at any suggestion of dodgy deals for their mates, are standing shoulder to shoulder with huge phama companies that are making billions out of a vaccine that has been rushed out, without the usual rigorous tests, and causing harm to people who would have been fine without it.

I don't trust anything this government says or does, and can easily believe that many of them and their mates got very rich because of covid. But I think the vaccine was a case of 'damned if they do, damned if they don't'. The arguments for and against were way too complex for me, but the majority view was that a vaccine was needed and I don't think that was down to money.

I had 3 doses, and if I could turn the clock back I'd do exactly the same.

[upthemaggies]

It is strange how the people on here who love to lace into the Tories at any suggestion of dodgy deals for their mates, are standing shoulder to shoulder with huge phama companies that are making billions out of a vaccine that has been rushed out, without the usual rigorous tests, and causing harm to people who would have been fine without it.

Not on here, but out there - there were useful idiots among the left who saw it as the perfect opportunity to bring down capitalism. Extremists are always tolerated to some extent by moderates on their own side (be that right or left) and the extremists do have more influence as the landscape becomes more polarised in times of greater uncertainty. One of the key figures advising the government was literally a communist, an expert in behavioural psychology, IIRC she was often introduced as a scientist/expert when she appeared on television. People trusted and listened to her.

As I'm sure most will know, the communists began weaponizing health as well as class, race, ***uality as a means of gaining power a century ago once they realised the poor were becoming better off under capitalism and rejecting socialism, but all of that is now on steroids because people of all political persuasions are seeing the monetary value in exploiting these factors, including groups supposedly fighting injustice now acting like protection rackets, it's a grift for a small bunch of people to make easy money whilst the rest of us are left arguing about what a woman is and whether or not teachers and pupils should be reprimanded for refusing to use horse or cat pronouns, distracted from the real issues.