O/T Ministers 'consider night ban for new drivers'

[Shark27]

Ban for lorry drivers on motorways and A roads? Oh, we wouldn't be able to do that would we.

Why not just give people a minimum 5 year sentence for death by dangerous driving?

[KerrAvon]

Ban for lorry drivers on motorways and A roads? Oh, we wouldn't be able to do that would we.

Why not just give people a minimum 5 year sentence for death by dangerous driving?

5 years would not be far from the average sentence for death by dangerous. You have to give the courts a bit of discretion - some death by dangerous cases are examples of people making gross errors of judgement rather than choosing to drive badly and endanger others.

[Shark27]

5 years would not be far from the average sentence for death by dangerous. You have to give the courts a bit of discretion - some death by dangerous cases are examples of people making gross errors of judgement rather than choosing to drive badly and endanger others.

Does that mean that they are out in 2 and half years then?

What is an example of a gross error of judgement when driving? Not realising your doing 45 in a 30 zone?

[KerrAvon]

Does that mean that they are out in 2 and half years then?

What is an example of a gross error of judgement when driving? Not realising your doing 45 in a 30 zone?

As a general rule someone would serve half their sentence before being released on licence.

Doing 45 in a 30 would not be treated as dangerous driving. If speeding was routinely treated as being dangerous half of this site would be doing time and half of the remainder would be thanking their lucky stars that they hadn't been caught yet.

[Shark27]

As a general rule someone would serve half their sentence before being released on licence.

Doing 45 in a 30 would not be treated as dangerous driving. If speeding was routinely treated as being dangerous half of this site would be doing time and half of the remainder would be thanking their lucky stars that they hadn't been caught yet.

So I'm saying minimum of 5 years. Therefore a sentence of 10 years.

What is an example of a gross error of judgement when driving dangerously out of interest?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The Court system is a shambles

[KerrAvon]

The Court system is a shambles

In what sense, Jolly/Easy? In international terms, we send a significant proportion of our population to prison. Does it help? I am not convinced.

[Brin]

In what sense, Jolly/Easy? In international terms, we send a significant proportion of our population to prison. Does it help? I am not convinced.

What a load of crap!

Our prison system is such over flowing that you can see regular cases of men having attacked people armed with bladed knives receiving 18 months to 2 year prison sentences ‘suspended’ for 2 years with a stupid community order. They laugh at that sentence because that is not a deterrent. They cannot simply jail them when they should be jailed.

The immigrant European population of jailed men is on the increase. Why not deport them hence where they came from?

The judicial system is Victorian and out dated and requires a shake up to bring it into the modern world and make the punishment fit the crime!

[KerrAvon]

What a load of crap!

Our prison system is such over flowing that you can see regular cases of men having attacked people armed with bladed knives receiving 18 months to 2 year prison sentences ‘suspended’ for 2 years with a stupid community order. They laugh at that sentence because that is not a deterrent. They cannot simply jail them when they should be jailed.

The immigrant European population of jailed men is on the increase. Why not deport them hence where they came from?

The judicial system is Victorian and out dated and requires a shake up to bring it into the modern world and make the punishment fit the crime!

Which bit is a load of crap, Brin?

The UK does send a very high proportion of its population to prison compared with other countries. Does it help to cut crime? I'm not convinced.

I doubt whether you would be able to find many - if any - examples of men being given suspended sentences for knife attacks, but sentences are determined on a case by case basis, so fill your boots and prove me wrong.

Foreign nationals are certainly over represented in the prison population, but I would be careful with that. People from poorer backgrounds and with lower levels of educational attainment are also over represented and it may be that many recent immigrants fall into that latter group.

EU citizens can only be deported on grounds of public policy or public safety and regard has to be given to the right to a private and family life that were are lucky enough to enjoy under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, but plenty of EU national criminals are deported after they serve their sentence (or, in some cases, in order to serve their sentence.

In what way do you say the judicial syetem is Victorian, Brin?

[Brin]

Which bit is a load of crap, Brin?

The UK does send a very high proportion of its population to prison compared with other countries. Does it help to cut crime? I'm not convinced.

I doubt whether you would be able to find many - if any - examples of men being given suspended sentences for knife attacks, but sentences are determined on a case by case basis, so fill your boots and prove me wrong.

Foreign nationals are certainly over represented in the prison population, but I would be careful with that. People from poorer backgrounds and with lower levels of educational attainment are also over represented and it may be that many recent immigrants fall into that latter group.

EU citizens can only be deported on grounds of public policy or public safety and regard has to be given to the right to a private and family life that were are lucky enough to enjoy under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, but plenty of EU national criminals are deported after they serve their sentence (or, in some cases, in order to serve their sentence.

In what way do you say the judicial syetem is Victorian, Brin?

Find one lol. All I had to do was go to the Sheffield Star and type in 'man with knife given suspended sentence' and eh presto!
This was a case from last year.


A 23-year-old man, who brandished a knife on a Sheffield street with the intention of 'killing' the man who had just attacked him, has been given a suspended sentence.
Sheffield Crown Court was told how just after 7.55pm on July 22 South Yorkshire Police were called out to The Wicker, after receiving reports of a man matching the description of defendant, Oumda Arja, brandishing a knife outside a barbers shop in the area.

Prosecuting, Neil Coxon, told the court that officers found Arja crossing Derek Dooley Way, and when they approached him he initially cooperated fully, and produced the eight-inch knife he was carrying in the left sleeve of his jacket.

After arresting Arja, officers noticed blood on the rear of the 23-year-old's jeans and discovered he had been stabbed in the back.

"When questioned about that, his attitude changed and he became aggressive and uncooperative," said Mr Coxon.

Arja, of Ellesmere Road, Burngreave, was taken to Northern General hospital for treatment.


Following this Mr Coxon told the court that Arja was interviewed by police after they reviewed CCTV from the barbers shop which showed him clearly waving the knife, gesticulating and appearing 'agitated'.

He said: "The defendant explained that he was walking near to The Wicker..and someone he didn't know bumped into him."

This led to an altercation that culminated in Arja, who told police he had been carrying a knife for the last 20 days due to being bullied by a man he does not known, being stabbed.

Mr Coxon added: "He admits chasing the male to the shop and requesting that he came outside.

"He told police he intended to do the same the same to him as 'he had done to me'.

"He was asked by police to clarify what he meant, and he said I would have stabbed him as he did to me.

"He does however say: 'I wouldn't have entered the shop unless the owner let me in, I would have stabbed him outside.

"My intention was to kill him, or be killed by him'."

Arja pleaded guilty to one count of affray and one count of possession of an offensive weapon in a public place at a hearing at Sheffield Magistrates' Court on August 23, when he was remanded into custody.

Defending, Richard Davies, told the court: "He [Arja] wishes to assure you, through me, that he will not conduct himself in the way he did on that day.


"Specifically, he will not carry a knife in future and if he gets himself in bother, if he gets bullied again, he will go to the police."

Recorder Jeremy Barnett sentenced Arja to two years in prison, suspended for two years, and ordered him to complete a 20-day rehabilitation activity requirement.

He said: "You are young, 23-years-old, of good character with no previous convictions.

Recorder Barnett added: "You have now said to me that you have changed your mind, and now accept that the law is correct and you will not carry this sort of weapon in public."


Just like I was saying, there is no deterrent for carrying bladed weapon these days and that is the reason so many youth carry them today. Would you like me to very quickly find you another case ?