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Thread: Opening Ceremony.

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  1. #1
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    Sep 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordering View Post
    try this clip - it will open your eyes I hope

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFkGj3HQMcc
    I've watched the clip bordering and whilst Sachs makes some very valid points ( many of which also appear in the 2 books I mentioned), I still personally disagree with some of his key views.

    Early on, for example, he says that the end of the Cold War, with Gorbachev keen for peace and closer ties to the West, should have been an opportunity to dismantle NATO which would have been the right thing to do as well as now safe to do. Bush, and subsequent presidents, however chose rather to expand NATO ever closer to Russia's borders. IMHO, I think this naive thinking at best-an "educated wish" as Deadpool might have put it.

    Aside from the very high probability that the ties within NATO, alongside those of the EU, have helped prevent far more conflict within Europe than create them, Russia itself after the fall of the Berlin Wall and subsequent collapse of the old Soviet Union in 1991 was very far from stable. The new Russian Federation was in dire economic difficulties and those seeking to transform it into a more democratic collaborative with a free market economy faced strong opposition from very powerful individuals with their own vested interests. Yeltsin's idea of encouraging privatization in order to try and build a bulwark against a possible return to communism played right into their hands. The voucher system was very quickly seized upon by those few powerful former communists who bought for themselves controlling shares in major industries and businesses. The Russian Oligarchs were born. These former Communists may have been the new captains of Capitalism but this was no major ideological problem for the majority of them who just cared about their own wealth and power. In such a climate, it was almost inevitable that some one like Putin would rise to his position.

    I guess most people take it as read that self interest and the opportunity to make more money by influential parties are what drives much of US foreign policy alongside security and a few humanitarian concerns. So, a lot of corruption and greed. But isn't the same true, to a more or lesser extent, of every nation? Is Russia any different?

    My point is that, given the situation in Russia at the time with no strong leader to deal with, would it not have been foolish to dismantle NATO? Would it have made much difference to Russia or prevented former KGB officer (and later director of the FS Putin coming to power? Putin has been either prime minister or president since 1999. I do understand the arguments around provocation regarding his invasion of Ukraine, but if NATO had been dismantled in the early 1990s, as Sachs suggests, does anyone genuinely believe that Putin would not have set about such invasions of either Ukraine or other former Soviet countries a lot earlier?

  2. #2
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    Sep 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickd1961 View Post
    Let’s not turn another post into a political critique FFS.

    We’ve enough of those.
    Fair enough. I'll stop now Mick. Promise😁

    Back to the Olympics, I wish Team GB all the very best but not too much good publicity coming out of the competition so far is there? Don't know about the arguments over Russia competing but allowing the rapist of a 12 year old girl (who effectively only served one year of his prison sentence) to compete with the Dutch volleyball team seems far more contentious! That video of our dressage winner caught mistreating the horse wasn't a good look either and she deserves her punishment. Sadly, given what I've learnt of the sport from some previously involved in it, it does not surprise me and her protestations over it being a one off seem very unlikely.

    Anyway, now all the opening ceremony stuff (tbf, the French couldn't really compete with that Queen and 007 skit could they?) is over and it's started proper, I'm looking forward to watching some decent track and field events. Might have to watch them on I-player mind due to work commitments which isn't quite the same as watching live.

    (Btw, enjoyed the Daley Thompson documentary -thanks for the recommendation)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by On Balance View Post
    If you honestly condone the murder of baby’s, little children, te€angers and innocent adults, the rape of young girls, wives and mothers, the beheading and shooting of soldiers who have surrendered and waved the white flag, then that is a matter for you and any therapist. To me, and I don’t often speak for a huge majority, but I will in this case, I think you’ll find your love of Putin and his vile followers is abhorrently sick to most of us.

    The West may not be totally faultless but how you can say that Putin is sane is beyond belief. Putin probably lies in his sleep. I am dismayed at anyone who shows such ignorance as to the true facts. I have taken a very balanced view on this war, or military operation (as the insane call it) anyone can see who the aggressor is, if one cannot then one is probably unbalanced or bordering on it.

    Couldn’t agree more with you! Bordering might want to do one to Moscow!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    25,448
    Quote Originally Posted by baggieal View Post
    Couldn’t agree more with you! Bordering might want to do one to Moscow!
    He’s Bordering on the insane.

    I’ll bet there’s no tinfoil to be found in the shops local to him and baked beans piled to mountainous levels in his shelter.

    A complete fruitcake.

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