O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[irishpete]

Putin's objectives were: ruling out NATO membership, demilitarisation (ie Ukraine rendering themselves defenceless in the future), and denazification (ie the murder/abduction Zelinsky and the installment of a pro-Russian puppet government).

If Ukraine can agree to rule out NATO membership, but keep their government and the ability to run their own defences (hard to imagine they won't want to re-arm significantly after this) then it might be seen as a worthwhile deal.

So thousands lose their lives & homes over something that was wanted at the start. "Unbieveable Jeff"
Putin "takes all"

[jackal2]

Putin's objectives were: ruling out NATO membership, demilitarisation (ie Ukraine rendering themselves defenceless in the future), and denazification (ie the murder/abduction Zelinsky and the installment of a pro-Russian puppet government).

If Ukraine can agree to rule out NATO membership, but keep their government and the ability to run their own defences (hard to imagine they won't want to re-arm significantly after this) then it might be seen as a worthwhile deal.

This would be the most likely basis for an agreement, allowing both sides to claim they achieved something. If it turns out this way, the only question will be why such an agreement wasn't reached before a bullet was fired? If this conflict is to achieve anything, it could be that Putin accepts he won't be able to re-build the USSR/Russian empire, and NATO accepts that it has progressed as far eastwards as it can without spooking the Russians/Chinese etc.

[i961pie]

Putin's objectives were: ruling out NATO membership, demilitarisation (ie Ukraine rendering themselves defenceless in the future), and denazification (ie the murder/abduction Zelinsky and the installment of a pro-Russian puppet government).

If Ukraine can agree to rule out NATO membership, but keep their government and the ability to run their own defences (hard to imagine they won't want to re-arm significantly after this) then it might be seen as a worthwhile deal.

That is fair enough but the sanctions should stay for quite a long time.

[BigFatPie]

Boris Johnson going to Saudi Arabia to beg for their oil to replace Putin’s oil and gas is so…mental. Chopping off the heads of brown people and bombing their kids is clearly acceptable to our Glorious Leader.

[drillerpie]

It is and has been 'acceptable' to pretty much every leader of every country which has internal combustion engines in it, for obvious reasons.

If not them then it would be Iran or Venezuela, so he hasn't got a great amount of choice to be fair.

[drillerpie]

That is fair enough but the sanctions should stay for quite a long time.

I agree, and I think the move away from Russian gas and oil will be permanent, so they will be weaker as a result. Even if they do sell it to China you would imagine it will have to be at a discount (the price of anything generally goes down as the number of potential customers decreases).

[drillerpie]

So thousands lose their lives & homes over something that was wanted at the start. "Unbieveable Jeff"
Putin "takes all"

If Ukraine concedes too much then yes, it will be very unpopular, but seeing as Putin didn't even regard Ukraine as a proper country a month ago I think certain kinds of deal could be seen as progress.

It will be interesting to see what happens with other Western non-NATO countries like Finland now though.

[SwalePie]

A Russian aircraft carrying nuclear fuel was allowed to land in Slovakia recently to deliver supplies for power plants in that country. May be similar?

[irishpete]

A Russian aircraft carrying nuclear fuel was allowed to land in Slovakia recently to deliver supplies for power plants in that country. May be similar?

Brilliant if true!! Can bend the sanctions to suit. They are either banned from the airspace or not.

[SwalePie]

Brilliant if true!! Can bend the sanctions to suit. They are either banned from the airspace or not.

I'm not a nuclear physicist but I would imagine this is perhaps essential for the continued operation and perhaps the ongoing safety of the power stations. Happy to be corrected of course.