O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[jackal2]

From what we are being told at this stage about Omicron varian is that it is very mild, doesn't not cause high hospitalizations or deaths. In fact 1 death so far reported of which we do not know the status of the victim
With this in mind wouldn't it have made sense to let this particular variant spread, giving everyone who catches it a natural immune response? Rather than taking up doctors and hospitals resources and time thus having a knock on effect of cancellations for patience treatments. This inevitably causing more deaths than the actual Variant?

I've heard a few virologists point out in layman's terms that the purpose of a virus is not to kill its host or render that host seriously unwell, because dead or immobile people don't help the virus to spread and thus survive. As a virus evolves, its longevity logically depends on it becoming increasingly transmissible, but gradually less lethal to the host. Therefore, Covid variants could be seen as a comparatively welcome development and a sign that the virus is going through this evolution.

The argument from those advocating tighter restrictions seems to be that the Omicron variant could indeed prove to be less severe, but the number it will infect will nevertheless be so high that even a comparatively small number of hospitalisations will still be a big number, in terms of the NHS's ability to cope. In terms of how to act and when, it then boils down to whether you assume the worst before the facts are known, or wait for the evidence and then respond.

[OP67]

I've heard a few virologists point out in layman's terms that the purpose of a virus is not to kill its host or render that host seriously unwell, because dead or immobile people don't help the virus to spread and thus survive. As a virus evolves, its longevity logically depends on it becoming increasingly transmissible, but gradually less lethal to the host. Therefore, Covid variants could be seen as a comparatively welcome development and a sign that the virus is going through this evolution.

The argument from those advocating tighter restrictions seems to be that the Omicron variant could indeed prove to be less severe, but the number it will infect will nevertheless be so high that even a comparatively small number of hospitalisations will still be a big number, in terms of the NHS's ability to cope. In terms of how to act and when, it then boils down to whether you assume the worst before the facts are known, or wait for the evidence and then respond.

Exactly how I read it, the more transmissible they are the more mild they become,like all other viruses. Bojo has one thing on his mind and that is to make sure the NHS doesn't completely fall apart under his watch. However that was always going to happen even without Covid. My worry is the 6 million on the waiting list now and 300,000 waiting over a YEAR!!! for treatment. Covid will kill more people who haven't caught it than it does those that have!!

[Riverleeno]

Just listening to the press conference and remarks by Chris Whitty stand out to me - to paraphrase he said that milder symptoms for Omicron in SA likely due to them having experienced a previous wave of Coronavirus and they will have some cross-over prior immunity whereas in Britain our previous wave of Delta we were protected by the vaccine and we don't have the same cross-immunity.

To me a layman this would suggest that unless you have caught and recovered from Covid prior to getting vaccinated you will always be dependant on a vaccine.

This would tie in with the idea of original antigenic sin I have read about.

Before a pile on this isn't anti vaccine as such I assume this is why they are so keen everyone gets boosted.

[upthemaggies]

To me a layman this would suggest that unless you have caught and recovered from Covid prior to getting vaccinated you will always be dependant on a vaccine.

This would tie in with the idea of original antigenic sin I have read about.

Before a pile on this isn't anti vaccine as such I assume this is why they are so keen everyone gets boosted.

Exactly.

Then ask who the real winner is.

Apparently Vaxxed will be producing spike proteins for at least a year before you clear them out, and it will be at least a year after each shot. Signs are that it's accumulative as well, as you'd expect at least to some degree. Unknown territory.

Meawhile Moderna’s chief medical officer Paul Burton has warned that the combination of the Delta and Omicron Covid variants, which may result from a person contracting both at the same time, could create a new, more dangerous strain."

I was listening to an MD the other night who predicted Omicron won't be so much of an issue for vaxxed but Delta will continue to evade any protection they have.

[Riverleeno]

Happy to be corrected if I misunderstood his comments, but otherwise considering we have had COVID here for getting on two years you would think there would be some cross immunity if they have got cross immunity in SA.

[maddogslater]

Good posts Riverleeno.

[magpie_mania]

I have been reading this thread and have found it really interesting.
I don't pretend to know alot about the virus or vaccines and have so far been double jabbed but i have a hesitancy to have the booster
I own my own business which has been terribly affected by COVID restrictions mainly and past lockdowns. I employ 6 staff who work in close proximity, one of those is not vaccinated at all through choice.
He is the only staff member not to have caught COVID as yet, maybe he has natural immunity, who knows?
From what we are being told at this stage about Omicron varian is that it is very mild, doesn't not cause high hospitalizations or deaths. In fact 1 death so far reported of which we do not know the status of the victim
With this in mind wouldn't it have made sense to let this particular variant spread, giving everyone who catches it a natural immune response? Rather than taking up doctors and hospitals resources and time thus having a knock on effect of cancellations for patience treatments. This inevitably causing more deaths than the actual Variant?
i know of more people who have died from not receiving treatment for there illness than people dying of COVID.
I am not against the vaccines and think they were very much the reason we were able to get back to some sort of normality but think decisions need to be made with common sense and the knock on effect of restrictions and maybe another lockdown would be catastrophic for some businesses and livelihoods this time around
My dad is an extremely vulnerable person having cancer and has been very close to death in hospital because of COVID. He's been double jabbed and now had the booster but his illness could now stop being treated so what's the point of the booster for him?
As i said i don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the vaccines and the virus. This is just an opinion from the outside

From what we are being told ..... depends who you listen to.

Far too early to know about hospitalization and deaths due to the lag after contracting the disease. It's only been here a couple of weeks so you wouldn't expect many deaths at the moment.

I agree that a lockdown would be bad, what is clear is that herd immunity is on its way as so many get it (78,000 cases today).

[maddogslater]

Have you read this UTMs ? Scary sht.
COVID-19 and the Global Predators: We Are the Prey https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/09824560...10KX5KEPT7S9Q2

[upthemaggies]

Have you read this UTMs ? Scary sht.
COVID-19 and the Global Predators: We Are the Prey https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/09824560...10KX5KEPT7S9Q2

Haven't read it but I'm probably familiar with the general gist of it.
How far does it go? Total and complete control of the population or does it entertain the idea of population reduction?

[applepie2]

"Covid19 is no worse than flu." - For the majority of people (vast majority even) that was true from the start of the pandemic. You can say it's impact on the health service was as bad or close to as bad as the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-70, which I assume is the angle you're coming from. but I would imagine most people make that statement from the point of view of a member of the general public going about their daily business rather than from the point of view of the care sector or officials having to develop a strategy to deal with it.

In my case, I'd say Covid felt like the most unnatural illness I've ever had and I can appreciate how people can die of it. If I'd had it for just a few days with the same level of symptoms at its worst, I'd have shrugged it off as no big deal, but dragging on for three weeks and not knowing when it's going to end is rough going. Given the choice of having flu or Covid again, I'd take my chances with flu.

With that in mind, I'm absolutely all for anything that effectively and safely stops you getting Covid or takes care of the illness after you've caught it, which is why I'd fully support the treatments which are presently being denied to doctors who know those treatments can work. We should be using all of the tools in the box if this is purely about health and saving lives, but if dark forces are deliberately trying to keep this virus going for as long as possible (as a reasonable threat to health) to shoe in some other agenda with plausibility denial, then they are doing a damned good job of it.

Which treatments are these?