O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[gm_gm]

And you're a financial expert? you don't happen to think that the UK is, and will be post brexit, stable financially??? do you also believe in unicorns?

I know nothing of how to feed and water ponies 5,000 feet underground and wouldn’t dream of telling you how to do this.

Financial expert yes

[millmoormagic]

I know nothing of how to feed and water ponies 5,000 feet underground and wouldn’t dream of telling you how to do this.

Financial expert yes

Tell yer what though, those ponies made much more sense about financial matters than you ever have on here.....

[gm_gm]

Tell yer what though, those ponies made much more sense about financial matters than you ever have on here.....

Talking to ponies (dumb animals) it’s all making sense....

Incidentally, did any of the ponies get elected to the role of area convenor?

[ragingpup]

Another reason to come out...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46288055

Reading this, wouldn't you like the EU to be there to prevent the Corbyn inspired Labour spending spree that you keep saying he has planned?

[gm_gm]

Reading this, wouldn't you like the EU to be there to prevent the Corbyn inspired Labour spending spree that you keep saying he has planned?

I’d like to think we have parliament and the electorate for the later will keep him out.

[KerrAvon]

Reading this, wouldn't you like the EU to be there to prevent the Corbyn inspired Labour spending spree that you keep saying he has planned?

To be more accurate, Corbyn and Labour say they are going to have a spending spree. Bribing the parents of middle class university students doesn't come cheap and that is just one item in the shopping basket.

[millmoormagic]

To be more accurate, Corbyn and Labour say they are going to have a spending spree. Bribing the parents of middle class university students doesn't come cheap and that is just one item in the shopping basket.

change the record Kerr, it really is getting quite tiresome, do you actually think that constantly repeating the same unfounded tripe ....Corbyn this, Corbyn that....1970's......unions......middle class students...... and repeat, actually means owt to anyone.......

etc etc

[ragingpup]

Yes, the political agreement refers to working towards a free trade arrangement, but the devil is in the detail and we will find that every EU country has its own ambitions about what should be included in one. As I mentioned earlier, fishing is going to be a particularly hot topic – we’ve got the fish and they want them.

I see no reason why the EU would want a change of negotiating team. They have gone through months of hard negotiations to get to the draft withdrawal arrangement. They don’t want Rees-Mogg, Davis and Johnson on the other side of the table ripping it up. If your reference to a GE refers to a fantasy in which Labour win power, I don’t see why the EU would welcome that. They don’t wear Momentum issued, rose tinted spectacles and can see that Labour is as split as the Tories with the Starmer/McDonnell fault line being particularly likely to break out into open hostilities at some point.

As an aside, I detect that you are something of a Remainer (you’d have to be to favour a Norway type deal). Do you truly feel that Labour would deliver a close relationship with the EU when it is run by Eurosceptics? In light of the desire by some posters to pin the blame for Brexit solely on the Tories, I checked the voting records for the Referendum Bill to confirm my memory that Labour supported it, but also noticed that Corbyn and McDonell were amongst 18 Labour MPs who defied the Labour whip to support a failed attempt to secure a EU exit referendum in 2011. Maybe we shouldn’t be surprised that they are siding with Rees-Mogg and Johnson to get a hard Brexit?

I voted remain but I think it was mainly out of fear of what the likes of Mogg, Davis et al on the further right of your party would do to employment and environmental rights and standards if free of the EU.

My ideal situation would be a leave on soft brexit Norway-ish terms with the EU, protecting the single market and cu as far as possible to protect the economy but with a labour government under the direction of the last manifesto so that we can improve our rights and protections further than possible under eu legislation. Obviously the ability to negotiate these under our own laws would depend hugely on what compromise we could reach if that ever became a possibility. But that's the ideal!

Next option would be to Remain so we retain eu protections on rights and environments from the nut jobs on the exteme of your party. This would restrict their ability to further erode workers/social/environmental rights as they would so like if they really overthrow May and get their No Deal.

Final option is the May deal but hope that Big Lad's paranoia turns out true and tat the evil eu keep us locked in the customs union and single market until we're all dead.

So, no, I'm not remain, no. Bit more complicated than that.

[millmoormagic]

I voted remain but I think it was mainly out of fear of what the likes of Mogg, Davis et al on the further right of your party would do to employment and environmental rights and standards if free of the EU.

My ideal situation would be a leave on soft brexit Norway-ish terms with the EU, protecting the single market and cu as far as possible to protect the economy but with a labour government under the direction of the last manifesto so that we can improve our rights and protections further than possible under eu legislation. Obviously the ability to negotiate these under our own laws would depend hugely on what compromise we could reach if that ever became a possibility. But that's the ideal!

Next option would be to Remain so we retain eu protections on rights and environments from the nut jobs on the exteme of your party. This would restrict their ability to further erode workers/social/environmental rights as they would so like if they really overthrow May and get their No Deal.

Final option is the May deal but hope that Big Lad's paranoia turns out true and tat the evil eu keep us locked in the customs union and single market until we're all dead.

So, no, I'm not remain, no. Bit more complicated than that.

Kind of where i'm at, the thing with kerr and gm and any other torys though is this, they're so obsessively focussed on Corbyn and ever so willing to accept the tripe that's been thrown at him in an orchestrated campaign through the media, that they're missing the real enemy, the real enemy is in among their own party, the mogg's and Johnsons and any other ultra right wing loon who care very little for the country at large, let alone it's people, and they really should take a long hard look at what these loons are really after....i won't hold my breath mind you...

[KerrAvon]

I voted remain but I think it was mainly out of fear of what the likes of Mogg, Davis et al on the further right of your party would do to employment and environmental rights and standards if free of the EU.

My ideal situation would be a leave on soft brexit Norway-ish terms with the EU, protecting the single market and cu as far as possible to protect the economy but with a labour government under the direction of the last manifesto so that we can improve our rights and protections further than possible under eu legislation. Obviously the ability to negotiate these under our own laws would depend hugely on what compromise we could reach if that ever became a possibility. But that's the ideal!

Next option would be to Remain so we retain eu protections on rights and environments from the nut jobs on the exteme of your party. This would restrict their ability to further erode workers/social/environmental rights as they would so like if they really overthrow May and get their No Deal.

Final option is the May deal but hope that Big Lad's paranoia turns out true and tat the evil eu keep us locked in the customs union and single market until we're all dead.

So, no, I'm not remain, no. Bit more complicated than that.

So what you are saying is that you fear that a government might come to power in the UK that would undermine environmental and employment protections in the UK. Ok, I can see that and agree with it. That has to be that risk in any democracy.

What I don’t get is how you see that a Norwegian style deal would meet your concerns. If an ‘extreme’ Tory government came to power in the UK, the odds are that they would be chucked out after five years (and, if they weren’t, it would suggest that they were getting something that a lot of people thought was right). A Norwegian style deal, on the other hand, means surrendering vast amounts of sovereignty to a pretty undemocratic EU, with no prospect of influencing the regulations we are required to observe. And if an ‘extreme’ regime took hold at the EU, then you would be stuck with it. Looking at the current EU leadership, you have to bear in mind that Jean-Claude Juncker presided over Luxembourg being turned into the tax avoidance capital of Europe. He probably wouldn't be on the guest list at a Momentum Christmas Party, but you are happy for him to be at the helm of this country apparently...

As for being able to ‘improve our rights and protections further than possible under EU legislation’, I fear that you are, once again demonstrating a lack of understanding. On this occasion it is in respect of Single Markets and the regulation required to underpin them. Regulation within a Single Market is aimed at preventing one member gaining a competitive advantage by having a lower regulatory regime, not a higher one. You could increase regulations and burdens on business to your heart’s content whilst a member of the EU – you would be stopped if your tried to go below the regulatory standard. Where Labour would come a cropper is in respect of state aid (you will recall the vast amounts of money pumped into lame duck industries in the 70s) and nationalisations.