O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[magpie_mania]

Here's a graph of the figures since September.




Unadjusted meaning those who haven't had their booster yet and remember the double jabbed still have the green light to go about their normal business.

So it's going to be interesting to see how they persuade the double jabbed to get the 3rd shot. Do they start frightening them with the fact that double jabbed are now filling up the hospitals or do they continue to blame the unjabbed and run the risk of leaving the double jabbed to believe they have enough protection.


Or we can just pretend the figures are made up, run back to a peer reviewed paper published 6 months ago that the double jabbed are protected and it's now a tiny decreasing percentage of a minority of unvaxxed who haven't yet had Covid causing all of the chaos.

I know I'm a bit thick and don't really understand that graph.

They don't need to start frightening people - you are having a pretty good go.

Stats can say whatever you want them to.

How do you account for the stats in the EP fairly recently which said that out of 14 Covid patients in the QMC ITU, 12 were unjabbed? It's true that jabbed people are contracting Covid, but if say 100 jabbed people were in hospital and 50 unjabbed, you need to look at the %age that is of each group. It certainly would not back up an argument that you are best off unjabbed.

People I know who have had it have all said that they were reallly glad they were jabbed. Not one has said, 'There was no point, I wish I hadn't bothered'.

[upthemaggies]

I know I'm a bit thick and don't really understand that graph.

They don't need to start frightening people - you are having a pretty good go.

Stats can say whatever you want them to.

How do you account for the stats in the EP fairly recently which said that out of 14 Covid patients in the QMC ITU, 12 were unjabbed? It's true that jabbed people are contracting Covid, but if say 100 jabbed people were in hospital and 50 unjabbed, you need to look at the %age that is of each group. It certainly would not back up an argument that you are best off unjabbed.

People I know who have had it have all said that they were reallly glad they were jabbed. Not one has said, 'There was no point, I wish I hadn't bothered'.

You're not being thick and you're absolutely right about stats.

The EP article doesn't stand up to what is presented by the stats that organise NHS ICU. We've got to accept now that unvaxxed are a considerable minority and that they cannot be constantly ill with Covid at all times, the majority will have natural immunity. Of the rest - they can only spread it for a few weeks and that's assuming they have or will definitely come down with it over the next month or two.
So who is spreading it now and filling up the hospitals?

They are asking double jabbed to get their booster for a reason.

The vast majority of us will be fine. If you haven't had Covid yet, you probably are going to get it eventually but if this variant is weak then now is as good a time as any.

[cher1]

So if you're vaxxed you can end up with heart problems induced by either Covid or the vax, with the vax risk increasing with each shot.

If you're not vaxxed then you're only at risk from Covid and 0% risk from a vax, with heart problems suspiciously only now beginning to be emphasised since people started getting jabbed.

Either you genuinely misunderstand what you've just written, or you don't think people will see the holes in that argument. I'm not sure which.

[CamPie]

I've just been to look at that document:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...llance-reports

And it's interesting reading. I think it could be useful to judge some of the claims made so far. It's about 50 pages long and I only had a quick look and so didn't find the part you quoted UTM, could you tell me which page it's on? I'm sure if I was more tech savvy I'd be able to search for it myself.

UTM is a classic case of only hearing / sharing reports that support his view. No idea where those figures are in the report and I intend to read the whole thing, however a quick scan of the first few pages and tables show good vaccine effectiveness and supports a differing view - but UTM chooses to ignore that completely! Make up your own minds.

[upthemaggies]

UTM is a classic case of only hearing / sharing reports that support his view. .

I've got to say I'm hugely impressed by everybody on the "other team", so to speak, sharing reports that DO NOT support their view. If only I could be as balanced and fair as you are. Perhaps I should watch the BBC and Covid ad funded commercial outlets more often to learn how to present both sides of the argument more fairly.

[cher1]

The comment that UTM attributed to the report doesn't actually appear to be in the report.

[upthemaggies]

The comment that UTM attributed to the report doesn't actually appear to be in the report.

It's from an analysis that also states "The goods news, however, is that the boosters appear to be having a significant impact."

Do you want to dispute that as well, or are you only going to accept what you want to hear.

[applepie2]

You're not being thick and you're absolutely right about stats.

The EP article doesn't stand up to what is presented by the stats that organise NHS ICU. We've got to accept now that unvaxxed are a considerable minority and that they cannot be constantly ill with Covid at all times, the majority will have natural immunity. Of the rest - they can only spread it for a few weeks and that's assuming they have or will definitely come down with it over the next month or two.
So who is spreading it now and filling up the hospitals?

They are asking double jabbed to get their booster for a reason.

The vast majority of us will be fine. If you haven't had Covid yet, you probably are going to get it eventually but if this variant is weak then now is as good a time as any.

That’s two different questions. Anyone who is infected may be spreading it. Those unvaccinated are much more likely to be seriously ill.

[upthemaggies]

That’s two different questions. Anyone who is infected may be spreading it. Those unvaccinated are much more likely to be seriously ill.

"likely to be" is dependent on age and health more than vax status, as has always been the case. To pretend vaxxed 70 year old is at less risk than an unvaxxed 15 year old is crazy talk.

How many elderly or at risk are still unvaxxed? The people now at risk are those who have been jabbed but haven't had their booster. Hence the current panic and shift in emphasis to get boosted, rather than on the unvaxxed to get vaxxed.

[maddogslater]

Well they already have total control, compliance by scarring the sht out of the populations, haven't read it, was mentioned in a JR podcast I was listening to the other day