If there is a second EU referendum

[AngryRam]

Obama tried to bully us with his threats.. Yesterday's man, who gives a **** what he thinks.
At Europes leaders had an interest.

[AngryRam]

Not sure what Obama did wrong Angry...probably the nearest we've got to a 'leader' of the 'West/Free World'/whatever and he gave his opinion just as European leaders have given theirs about the - godawful imo - prospect of Trump.
Also, tbf, Farage anticipated a narrow defeat before the vote and is on record as saying if the nation voted 'Remain' by a margin of something like 52/48 then he'd be campaigning for another vote.

Does Farage post on here? Tricky is that you? Swaley?
Show yourself.

[swaledale]

Anag, forgive me for not quoting your whole post... But, on your point of people not voting, I seem to remember when there was trouble in France yourself and Swaley were posting that hopefully these thugs had not registered to vote. Seems strange that now you are distressed that you were missing people who voted. Are we only distressed about missing voters who would have possible voted Remain?

Nobody has answered my point that all of a sudden the politicians who you guys have said have lied to us will all of a sudden become super human Lycra clad hero's who won't lie.. And that you trust that 100%..

So let's say we left it to the politicians for a second.. How would that work? Votes along party lines? What happens if as in this case the parties were split? Party WIPs forcing votes.
Okay a free vote.. In theory the elected representative of that area should vote as his/her constituents feel.. If you follow that logic and look at the voting patterns, what would the result have been.. To be honest I don't know as London would have a larger amount of constituencies.. Someone has probably worked that out.. If an elected representative had voted against the majority of his constiuants, how would that have been received?
Would that whole process have not raised as many questions as you have now? Both sides could bleat that this or that in unfair.
Lastly, I did not hear too many of these arguements pre the referendum...

I suggest you read mine and Anag's posts again, we have clearly identified the proven lies which said and how Farage and Johnson have back tracked from statements they are on record as saying before the vote - we are not saying they lied, they did its proven.

Angry you don't seem to understand how a parliamentary democracy works! I said IF a party like UKIP had a major policy to leave the EU if elected and they got elected into government then they would have a mandate and a majority in parliament to carry that forward - thats how 99% of all decisions are made in this country and have been for thousands of years, thats how the decision to go to war in Iraq was made. Oh and last time I looked UKIP had 1 MP, even under a fairer proportional voting system they would not have had more than 8 or 9.

Lastly Anag and I made these arguments and so did others many times prior to the vote, but people believed that voting leave meant £350 million extra would be spent on the NHS ...nuff said.

[swaledale]

Obama tried to bully us with his threats.. Yesterday's man, who gives a **** what he thinks.
At Europes leaders had an interest.

Well much of the stuff said by remain was *******s as well, but of course the markets have stabilised we are still in the EU and will be for at least 2 years and right now those vested interests who really control what happens in this country are working to ensure that whatever deal is reached suits them and not the country and that deal isn't likely to be one the Leave side thinks it voted for!

[AngryRam]

I suggest you read mine and Anag's posts again, we have clearly identified the proven lies which said and how Farage and Johnson have back tracked from statements they are on record as saying before the vote - we are not saying they lied, they did its proven.

Angry you don't seem to understand how a parliamentary democracy works! I said IF a party like UKIP had a major policy to leave the EU if elected and they got elected into government then they would have a mandate and a majority in parliament to carry that forward - thats how 99% of all decisions are made in this country and have been for thousands of years, thats how the decision to go to war in Iraq was made. Oh and last time I looked UKIP had 1 MP, even under a fairer proportional voting system they would not have had more than 8 or 9.

Lastly Anag and I made these arguments and so did others many times prior to the vote, but people believed that voting leave meant £350 million extra would be spent on the NHS ...nuff said.

I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

[swaledale]

I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

I dont know all the reasons for people voting leave but on two key points made by the Leave campaign, the £350 million was a deffo lie, that and the control on immigration were i suspect two key facors.

I said I would find the decision more acceptable if it had been decided by a government with a mandate gained at an election to make the decision, I didnt think and still dont think that a referendum was the right mechanism for the reasons outlined previously.

I have no great faith in politicians but in the absence of a better system of government its the best we can hope for, I have even less faith in the ability of most people including myself to be able make a reasoned decision on such a complex issue through a simple in or out vote.

[southernram22]

but it didnt accept defeat graciously move on.

[swaledale]

but it didnt accept defeat graciously move on.

Unfortunately its not that simple, those who were in favour of Leave do not seem to have a clue what to do now, Johnson clearly does not have a plan beyond crossing his fingers and hoping it will turn out OK - lets see where that gets us i suspect Johnson in charge and then when it all falls apart a general election next year with **** knows what as the choice!

Also whilst i accept nothing is certain, the obvious deal is going to be access to the single market which means free movement of labour, so thats immigration no change, accept EU rules and regulations - no change again and financial contributions - no change, but without a vote or veto to influence chnage or block things are those who voted leave really going to be happy with that?

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=AngryRam;38183103]I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

Except that...what 'Leave' suggested regarding the weekly £350m and immigration has been proved to be untrue and what 'Remain' suggested would happen if we voted to 'Leave' is, minute by minute, coming true...the Markets are predicting a U.K. recession, Standard and Poor have downgraded our credit rating, the pound is at a thirty year low, U.S. and European bank shares had their worst two day fall since Lehman Bros. in 2008, the P.M. has resigned, the opposition is in disarray and we are totally isolated amongst our European neighbours.
Can't imagine that's what you and the Brexiteers wanted - Farage apart - but if you/they did then congratulations...last week's vote looks like undoing all that has been achieved via the years of austerity and sending us back to square one...only this time we'll be on our own.

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=AngryRam;38183103]I suggest you read mine again.. I have never disputed your claims of lies.. All I am saying is that you now want it left to the politicians... The very ones you have stated lied... Both sides were not honest.. Scare tactics from remain.. Exaggerations by leave.. Neither side was whiter than white.
You seem to think and you are right to an extent, that the NHS promise was the swinging issue.. I am not sure for how many that was the single most important thing and swung their vote.. Neither do you I suspect.

Except that...what 'Leave' suggested regarding the weekly £350m and immigration has been proved to be untrue and what 'Remain' suggested would happen if we voted to 'Leave' is, minute by minute, coming true...the Markets are predicting a U.K. recession, Standard and Poor have downgraded our credit rating, the pound is at a thirty year low, U.S. and European bank shares had their worst two day fall since Lehman Bros. in 2008, the P.M. has resigned, the opposition is in disarray and we are totally isolated amongst our European neighbours.
Can't imagine that's what you and the Brexiteers wanted - Farage apart - but if you/they did then congratulations...last week's vote looks like undoing all that has been achieved via the years of austerity and sending us back to square one...only this time we'll be on our own.