O/T:- Banks

[Newish Pie]

I don't blame most people for voting for Brexit... the Leave Campaign presented a seductive vision where we could have all the advantages of being in the EU while being free to make more of our own rules and make more trade deals outside of the EU. They need us more than we need them, they said... easiest trade deal in the world, they said. We hold all the cards, they said. Sunlight uplands, they said. If - instinctively, you're not an internationalist and don't feel European, what's not to like? Why wouldn't you vote for that?

Problem is, all this turned out to be untrue. I don't blame the people who believed it... I blame the people who sold it. Either... (a) they knew it was nonsense, but said it anyway for personal or political advantage; (b) in spite of being in positions of responsibility and influence, they were still ill-informed; or (c) a mixture of both, held together with wishful thinking.

The other people I blame are the media, for failing to hold the liars and the charlatans to proper account. And the 'Remain' campaign who failed to nail the nonsense, and worse, failed to make a clear, positive case for remaining in terms of our freedoms, shared sovereignty, and shared prosperity. And some of the worst of the "remainers", who'd rather sneer at people who voted leave than understand the reasons and learn any lessons. Just because all racists voted for Brexit, doesn't mean everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist.

Oh, and David Cameron. For allowing what was a niche issue for most voters outside the endless Conservative Party psychodrama and putting party interest before country and gambling on a referendum (for a second time) and then making a horrible mess of it.

And as a result of all this, we end up not with a Conservative government, but with a Conservative government drawn from a sub-section of their party, with all or most of the pro-Europeans, the One Nations, the sensible, reasonable Tories purged or driven out. It's the Tory equivalent of a Corbyn-only version of Labour. And the talent pool on that wing of the Tory party... it's not deep. The same would be true of a government drawn solely from the left of the Labour Party.

At the same time, with the Brexit campaign and Johnson, we've had the Trump-isation of British politics. We've always had spin, but the Tories plumbed new depths with dishonest campaigning, lying to the Queen, lying to Parliament, lying about PPE contracts, and basically trying to defend the indefensible.

The Tories need to go. They need a long spell in opposition to recover their energies and re*****ise their talent pool - though I fear if/when they lose they'll only get worse. Anyone imagine the next Tory leader is going to be as sane as Sunak, who is at least on nodding acquaintance with reality, rather than some Tufton Street thinktank crank with reality-resistent economic policies like Truss.

Time for a Labour government. I'd agree about not getting your hopes up... plans are uninspiring at the moment, but Labour tend to be ultra-cautious about what they promise because the vast majority of the media are against them, and that's only got worse over recent years. They're hoping to do as little as possible and say as little as possible, but I hope what we'll see is a more ambitious and radical Labour party in government. That's what I really regret about New Labour... having done a lot of brilliant stuff (Sure Start, Northern Ireland, regional devolution, minimum wage and so on) very quietly, they didn't kick on and become more radical... having established their competence, going to the electorate and saying "we've shown we can be trusted, trust us to do more."

Another reason not to get your hopes up is because everything is such a mess and there's no easy fix for any of it, beyond putting medium and long term plans in place for the NHS/social care/productivity, alleviating poverty, trying to find a fair way to move to zero carbon where the costs fall on those with the ability to pay. Labour can't fix Brexit damage (not yet, anyway), they can't solve Ukraine, and they can't undo post-pandemic damage and disruption.

[Magpies1959]

Good post Marcus.

[countygump]

Good post Marcus.

Agreed.

Interesting fred as well.

As it happens, I've always had feeling of being born into the wrong body. I could have sworn I should have been born a Rothschild.

Sorry............

[crazyfists]

In regard to people believing what the leave campaign said, then that might be right but did they bother to look into it? Did they not listen to most of the top business brains and economists saying it's going to go badly wrong? Not think it's a mistake to make it harder and more expensive to do business with the customer who accounts for 85%? Listen to the US say we're at the back on any trade deals? Risk becoming isolated? Realise that most of the immigrants they don't like (brown people) aren't from the EU and leaving it will make EU countries less agreeable to working with us to stem the flow? Let tories decimate our long standing right to protest? Our big part and then exit of most of the human bill of rights? The standards for our seas and rivers given to us from the EU to dump massive loads of ****? Or did they read the side of a bus.

I said before Brexit on here, if it goes tits up, then you won't find one leaver admitting they were wrong. No it's all the left, EUs, tory deals, not proper Brexit, a global cabals fault. Whilst everyone gets mad at someone throwing glitter at a snooker or tennis match (instead of getting mad at their message, which is correct, not being acted upon) then maybe they should realise just what the tories and Brexit have done. Yes covid but other countries seem to be bouncing back as they're part of the EU. Even covid was an unmitigated disaster, from parties and positive patients to care homes. FFS we're an island, we had a chance to really control it much better and limit incoming positive patients but no we did that too slowly as well. Absolute jokers. And Magpie I respect your views, they're yours but on Truss, she caused issues that ruined people's lives in regard to mortgages so let's not talk to pretend she was undone cause she wanted to go her own way, the markets and our economic standing in the world were not ready for that and as PM and KK it was their job to know that.

And I actually agree, most parties are much like each other once they get in power regarding promises but even a cautious Starmer can't do as bad a job as this lot have done. There's a serious brain drain at the top now, RS can't even be arsed to show his face in PMQs as he knows it's all a **** show.

[Magpies1959]

Top business brains and banks have been been wildly wrong with their economic forecasts for years now and couldn't apparently see the crash
coming in 2008, yeh ok. It is a bit like all those eminent scientists that got covid so wrong. We are at the back of the US trade deals purely because Sleepy Joe hate Britain, but he hasn't got a clue why lol.
I think even the most staunch Remainer would have to agree that Brexit has never had a chance to work, given all that has gone on in the world since. I also think the closeness of the referendum result tells you that Brexit was never going to be a huge success or a huge disaster, if it had been given a level playing field to start from. With covid and the war in Ukraine, it has been an open goal for Remainers to rubbish Brexit.
I don't see where the Tories have decimated long standing rights to protest, judging by the sh!t show going off with Just Stop Oil, Extinction Rebellion etc. In the past protests were either outside the Houses of Parliament, where it has to be said, is the best place for people with a point to prove to get their message over, or on previously agreed marches with the Police and authorities, which is fair enough. Now people are allowed to disrupt ordinary members of the public, going about their everyday business, while the Police are drinking tea somewhere, maybe wearing rainbow coloured helmets. It is only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed.

[Elite_Pie]

Brexit has never had a chance to work, given all that has gone on in the world since. I also think the closeness of the referendum result tells you that Brexit was never going to be a huge success or a huge disaster.

Rubbish, Brexit has definitely been a huge disaster. You can blame Covid and the Ukraine war if you wish, but it's not only affected us. Every other country has had to cope with both, and they have coped a lot better than we have. For a level playing field look at the G7 economies. All of them have recovered to pre-Covid levels apart from us and Germany. I don't know why Germany have been poor, but we have been poor due to an utterly incompetent government and the millstone of Brexit.

[keldsyke]

We can pull out YouTube videos until the cows come home, who would you prefer to be the next PM, Starmer or the next arsehole the Tories choose? I know there are Corbynites who prefer the Tories.

I hate the fact that we’re not a Scandinavian style social democracy but until the right wing press are destroyed you’ve got to take the wins where you can.

You really need to see someone about your anger issues… you’ve used the words ‘arseholes’, ‘hate’ and ‘destroyed’ in one post not good or balanced.

[Elite_Pie]

You really need to see someone about your anger issues… you’ve used the words ‘arseholes’, ‘hate’ and ‘destroyed’ in one post not good or balanced.

But are you reading those words how you want to read them, or how they are actually meant?

It's just that today a term I used to take the piss out of racists was construed as a racist post by someone else!

[PedroTheFisherman66]

The Thread title reminds me of one of my fist sucker stick jokes !

The Book of how to Get Rich Quickly by Robin Banks !!

[keldsyke]

The Thread title reminds me of one of my fist sucker stick jokes !

The Book of how to Get Rich Quickly by Robin Banks !!

I’m guessing that book is now past its first edition! 😂