O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[KerrAvon]

You are falling into the same trap as David Davis did in the negotiations with the EU and which many parliamentarians are now, which is failing to note the difference between what you want and what it is possible to get.

In my opinion, May's deal getting Parliamentary approval is more likely than a Norway deal or further referendum getting approved.

But keep asking daft questions for the sake of it if you wish. Is it a Momentum thing?

[ragingpup]

You are falling into the same trap as David Davis did in the negotiations with the EU and which many parliamentarians are now, which is failing to note the difference between what you want and what it is possible to get.

In my opinion, May's deal getting Parliamentary approval is more likely than a Norway deal or further referendum getting approved.

But keep asking daft questions for the sake of it if you wish. Is it a Momentum thing?

It's got nothing to do with Davis, or Momentum. The actual likely outcome isn't relevant to my question, which is about you. You're always the first to pull apart other opinions when they state their preferred outcomes; you've done it to me when I said that I would prefer to renegotiate to lose the backstop at the expense of a softer Brexit, to solve the NI issue. I accept that this will be a compromise to the FoM and some aspects of ECJ that we would have to renegotiate from. There, cards on table. That's what I would like to happen. Not so hard is it? My hope then would be that this would get the majority in the Commons to get the deal done and avoid the hard Brexit, or being caught in a terminal backstop with Macron holding the EU end of the agreement in one hand and a large fish in the other...

So, again, what would be your preferred outcome out of the options that are before us?


(for the record, I'm not a member of Momentum, nor am aware of their policy pushes on this. I think they're going for a 2nd referendum aren't they?). I'm just a Labour Party member. Just so we're clear. If you want further clarification on where Momentum and I might differ I could look them up and fill you in on the matter, in just the way that you can't in relation to yourself and the current conservative party policies! )

[KerrAvon]

@ Raging,

Of course you are a member of Momentum, which is why you know very well that they support a further referendum. It's a sorry state of affairs when your organisation has a coherent policy whilst the political party it parasitises doesn't. It’s also a bit unfair on Labour voters when they put their cross against Labour and risk getting your organisation instead.

Once again, I can see where you are going wrong. This thread isn’t about me as you assert – it’s about Brexit. As I mentioned to Exile further up, if you want to talk about my politics, start a thread on the subject.

I can see that I upset you when I commented upon your support for a Norway deal. With hindsight, I could have just pointed out that there is no chance of a Parliamentary majority for such a policy.

Whilst I am sorry that I upset you over Norway, I still find it incredible that you could object to the backstop when the deal on your wish list is one where we would have to accept freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the ECJ and in which the EU would have an even greater say upon what the UK can do and we would be paying for the privilege. In other words, it's a far more restrictive position than the backstop, with no discernible advantages over it. This again confirms that you have no understanding of the May deal that you are urging your MP not to support.

[ragingpup]

@ Raging,

Of course you are a member of Momentum, which is why you know very well that they support a further referendum. It's a sorry state of affairs when your organisation has a coherent policy whilst the political party it parasitises doesn't. It’s also a bit unfair on Labour voters when they put their cross against Labour and risk getting your organisation instead.

Once again, I can see where you are going wrong. This thread isn’t about me as you assert – it’s about Brexit. As I mentioned to Exile further up, if you want to talk about my politics, start a thread on the subject.

I can see that I upset you when I commented upon your support for a Norway deal. With hindsight, I could have just pointed out that there is no chance of a Parliamentary majority for such a policy.

Whilst I am sorry that I upset you over Norway, I still find it incredible that you could object to the backstop when the deal on your wish list is one where we would have to accept freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the ECJ and in which the EU would have an even greater say upon what the UK can do and we would be paying for the privilege. In other words, it's a far more restrictive position than the backstop, with no discernible advantages over it. This again confirms that you have no understanding of the May deal that you are urging your MP not to support.

Not upset in the least. Just enjoying seeing you unable to give an answer to the simple question of what your preferred outcome would be to the likely rejection of May's deal in the commons?

I understand the drawbacks of the 'Norway' option but as I think I may have already indicated, and that you seem to struggle to comprehend, I am willing to accept FoM and parts of the ECJ in order to secure friction-less trade and travel with the EU. I can see that you are trying to deflect having to answer the question by looking at drawbacks in my preference.

This is what you do.

In fact this is all you do. Far from being the sophisticated person, above taking party sides, your way is to wait until the Government form a policy and then defend it to the hilt from critics. Well good luck to you lad.

Unfortunately for you, I have already identified the compromises in my preference and am standing by that. Something has to give as there is little chance of this getting through. So it would seem have a number of the cabinet, possibly Mrs May herself as a Plan B. I guess when she and they emerge with this Plan B following the defeat, you'll suddenly be on here defending it! Try thinking for yourself lad! It's good for the brain.

So, back to the questions: if you are rejecting the compromise of a deal along these lines, that leaves you with either a preference of:

1. A return to the EU with a Harder Brexit deal in the hope that they would listen and not just piss themselves laughing.
2. Walking away at the commons rejection with no attempt to re-negotiate and just accepting a No Deal.

Which of these two remaining options are you in favour of?

(I'm beginning to think that your inability to answer this simple question indicates that you're quietly a Remainer, but daren't say so out loud! Is that it? You saucy devil!)

[KerrAvon]

Not upset in the least. Just enjoying seeing you unable to give an answer to the simple question of what your preferred outcome would be to the likely rejection of May's deal in the commons?

I understand the drawbacks of the 'Norway' option but as I think I may have already indicated, and that you seem to struggle to comprehend, I am willing to accept FoM and parts of the ECJ in order to secure friction-less trade and travel with the EU. I can see that you are trying to deflect having to answer the question by looking at drawbacks in my preference.

This is what you do.

In fact this is all you do. Far from being the sophisticated person, above taking party sides, your way is to wait until the Government form a policy and then defend it to the hilt from critics. Well good luck to you lad.

Unfortunately for you, I have already identified the compromises in my preference and am standing by that. Something has to give as there is little chance of this getting through. So it would seem have a number of the cabinet, possibly Mrs May herself as a Plan B. I guess when she and they emerge with this Plan B following the defeat, you'll suddenly be on here defending it! Try thinking for yourself lad! It's good for the brain.

So, back to the questions: if you are rejecting the compromise of a deal along these lines, that leaves you with either a preference of:

1. A return to the EU with a Harder Brexit deal in the hope that they would listen and not just piss themselves laughing.
2. Walking away at the commons rejection with no attempt to re-negotiate and just accepting a No Deal.

Which of these two remaining options are you in favour of?

(I'm beginning to think that your inability to answer this simple question indicates that you're quietly a Remainer, but daren't say so out loud! Is that it? You saucy devil!)

Not upset? Of course you aren't! Your keyboard is getting sticky with the foam from your mouth.

Can you point out where I have defended May's deal to the hilt from critics? A couple of posts ago you were saying: I have just about extracted a grudging opinion that you think that May's deal is the best we can get. I appreciate that you are a wee bit flustered but it would be helpful if you could decide what your position is.

Again I would simply point out that the fact that you like the Norway model (even though I don't think you understand it) doesn't mean that it can get through Parliament. The main objection to the May plan is that the backstop if triggered is too restrictive and so the acceptance of an even more restrictive regime has to be rather unlikely. I have no difficulty with you liking Norway I just don’t understand what you think you are achieving by doing so. I’d like a house in Antigua but it aint going to happen (unless I win the lottery).

Thinking about things is great but it helps if you understand what you are thinking about first.

[Lolmorgan]

Not upset? Of course you aren't! Your keyboard is getting sticky with the foam from your mouth.

Can you point out where I have defended May's deal to the hilt from critics? A couple of posts ago you were saying: I have just about extracted a grudging opinion that you think that May's deal is the best we can get. I appreciate that you are a wee bit flustered but it would be helpful if you could decide what your position is.

Again I would simply point out that the fact that you like the Norway model (even though I don't think you understand it) doesn't mean that it can get through Parliament. The main objection to the May plan is that the backstop if triggered is too restrictive and so the acceptance of an even more restrictive regime has to be rather unlikely. I have no difficulty with you liking Norway I just don’t understand what you think you are achieving by doing so. I’d like a house in Antigua but it aint going to happen (unless I win the lottery).

Thinking about things is great but it helps if you understand what you are thinking about first.

For Feck sake lighten up, we have just drawn one of the best teams in the world in the FA Cup & all you taproom politicians bang on about the brexit something you can do nothing about.

[Exiletyke]

I really don't believe the resident Judge Rinder
Says he's invited me to start a thread on his politics
When does he ever talk any other than politics [such as they are]
Man City v Millers, any thoughts KA

[millmoormagic]

The king of condescension strikes again....

[ragingpup]

Not upset? Of course you aren't! Your keyboard is getting sticky with the foam from your mouth.

Can you point out where I have defended May's deal to the hilt from critics? A couple of posts ago you were saying: I have just about extracted a grudging opinion that you think that May's deal is the best we can get. I appreciate that you are a wee bit flustered but it would be helpful if you could decide what your position is.

Again I would simply point out that the fact that you like the Norway model (even though I don't think you understand it) doesn't mean that it can get through Parliament. The main objection to the May plan is that the backstop if triggered is too restrictive and so the acceptance of an even more restrictive regime has to be rather unlikely. I have no difficulty with you liking Norway I just don’t understand what you think you are achieving by doing so. I’d like a house in Antigua but it aint going to happen (unless I win the lottery).

Thinking about things is great but it helps if you understand what you are thinking about first.

Yes, but what would you like to see happen after the commons vote down May's deal?

[ragingpup]

For Feck sake lighten up, we have just drawn one of the best teams in the world in the FA Cup & all you taproom politicians bang on about the brexit something you can do nothing about.

We've drawn Barnet? Excellent, nice easy passage.