O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[drillerpie]

I've been following this channel for a while and some of the things they share are staggering.

Yeah there was the Dean of Politics at Moscow State University a couple of weeks ago saying Ukraine isn't a real nation and it has no right to exist.

There was the military man who said Belarus is actually Russia, and they had a Belarusian guest on so they had to stop him and remind that Belarus is an independent republic (that is until they manage to have an election Lukashenko doesn't rig, then that too will be annexed, no doubt).

Plus many deeply disturbing speakers revelling in the destruction of playgrounds, apartments and civilian infrastructure.

[SwalePie]

Yeah there was the Dean of Politics at Moscow State University a couple of weeks ago saying Ukraine isn't a real nation and it has no right to exist.

There was the military man who said Belarus is actually Russia, and they had a Belarusian guest on so they had to stop him and remind that Belarus is an independent republic (that is until they manage to have an election Lukashenko doesn't rig, then that too will be annexed, no doubt).

Plus many deeply disturbing speakers revelling in the destruction of playgrounds, apartments and civilian infrastructure.

The female host on that '60 minutes' type Russian TV show is a scary creature too!

[Jampie]

It's fascinating to me how desperate they're getting. Attacking civilian power infrastructure with Iranian suicide drones... hardly the power move of a great military now is it...

[andy6025]

It's fascinating to me how desperate they're getting. Attacking civilian power infrastructure with Iranian suicide drones... hardly the power move of a great military now is it...

By that logic, NATO was desperate when it attacked the Serbian power grid in the opening days of their bombing campaign there.

“NATO airstrikes on Yugoslavia's power grid left millions of people without electricity or water service today, bringing the war over Kosovo more directly into the lives of civilians across the country.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...rade052599.htm

...or when they attacked Iraq in operation desert storm:

“Because most of the information from Operation Desert Storm is still clas* sified, it is difficult to make definitive judgments about the impact of attacks on electrical power, but once again electric power was a high priority target.”

https://media.defense.gov/2017/Dec/2...GIC_ATTACK.PDF

[Old_pie]

By that logic, NATO was desperate when it attacked the Serbian power grid in the opening days of their bombing campaign there.

“NATO airstrikes on Yugoslavia's power grid left millions of people without electricity or water service today, bringing the war over Kosovo more directly into the lives of civilians across the country.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...rade052599.htm

...or when they attacked Iraq in operation desert storm:

“Because most of the information from Operation Desert Storm is still clas* sified, it is difficult to make definitive judgments about the impact of attacks on electrical power, but once again electric power was a high priority target.”

https://media.defense.gov/2017/Dec/2...GIC_ATTACK.PDF

Am I misunderstanding something? I thought, however misguided if indeed they were, that the interventions by NATO/Western Coalitions were in attempts to bring about a peace. Is Russia still trying to clear out the Nazis or do they really want to drown and burn Ukrainian children?

Seems to me that you really are a Spanish communist revolutionary at heart, with Lenin, Stalin, Franco, Castro and Che Guevara your idols but forced to reside in a safe democratic country. You must hate it there. Are you encouraged that Xi Jinping has secured his future for the foreseeable future? Perhaps your views would be more welcomed in Pyongyang than on here.

There should be a Western Alliance to carry out Special Operations (not a war of course) and clear the Ukraine border 100mile into Russia to provide a buffer.

Perhaps you could tell me which countries were forced in NATO, and perhaps which USA invasion has led to the 51st State.

[andy6025]

Am I misunderstanding something?

Yes, it seems you are. The other guy said that Russia’s attack on Ukrainian power grids meant that Russia is desperate. I said that by that logic, NATO was desperate when it attacked Serbia’s power grid, and the US was desperate when it attacked the Iraqi power grid.

Do you think we should formulate consistent theories, or is it better to just make stuff up as we go along?

I thought, however misguided if indeed they were, that the interventions by NATO/Western Coalitions were in attempts to bring about a peace.

You could make a decent argument that the wars on Serbia and Iraq were well intentioned but wrong. Others might argue that in the case of Serbia, Bill Clinton was trying to salvage his presidency by creating a distraction (wag the dog), or that The US was playing geopolitics by attacking a Russian ally, or that they were trying to justify the continued existence of a post cold-war NATO, etc.

In the case of Iraq one could argue, as you’ve suggested, that it was indeed misguided - such as the US Congress being duped into believing that Iraqi soldiers were going into Kuwaiti maternity wards and removing babies from their incubators and leaving them to die on the floor, or that the Americans gave Saddam Hussein the green light to invade Kuwait because they were allegedly fracking oil under Iraq territory, etc.

Is Russia still trying to clear out the Nazis or do they really want to drown and burn Ukrainian children?

According to the Russian foreign minister Lavrov, the objectives of the special military operation have remained unchanged. I haven’t heard anything about claims of drowning and burning Ukrainian children, but why do you ask - has Nayirah al-Ṣabaḥ made another appearance snd this time she’s working for the Ukrainians?

Seems to me that you really are a Spanish communist revolutionary at heart, with Lenin, Stalin, Franco, Castro and Che Guevara your idols but forced to reside in a safe democratic country. You must hate it there.

Ah yes, the “love it or leave it” argument. Never mind that my home, family, work, friends and life are here - I must immediately pack up and move somewhere that suits my politics better. Funny nobody here questions why I don’t move to Nottingham since I support Notts.

That said, I do find the ‘collective west’ to be less free than it pretends to be. This funny clip from Sacha Baron Cohen about sums up how free we are:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIOPw0Ewj4Q

Are you encouraged that Xi Jinping has secured his future for the foreseeable future?

Sure. Did you have someone else in particular in mind that you prefer to govern China? I mean, never mind that you’re not Chinese nor do you live there, but you’re just as entitled to have your opinion on who ought to govern China. So, who did you have in mind?

Perhaps your views would be more welcomed in Pyongyang than on here.

Perhaps! You’re welcome to go there and do a survey of the people of some top quotes from me and find out!

Interestingly though you seem to be presenting rather contradictory ideas. On the one hand, you seem to suggest that we (the collective west) live in democracies, where free political debate and the sharing of ideas is not only tolerated, but celebrated. On the other hand, because my opinion differs from the mainstream narrative, I ought to f*%k off out of here. Make up your mind.

There should be a Western Alliance to carry out Special Operations (not a war of course) and clear the Ukraine border 100mile into Russia to provide a buffer.

I don’t think it would turn out like you think, but it’d make for an interesting gamble nonetheless.

Perhaps you could tell me which countries were forced in NATO, and perhaps which USA invasion has led to the 51st State.

Given that European leaders have been undermining their own interests for quite some time, it’s not outlandish to think that some of them are perhaps being forced into making bad decisions. Take for example that Germany says they know ‘whodunnit’ on the pipeline, but aren’t going to say... you know, for reasons of ‘national security’. Seems that they might be being coerced.

As for the 51st state, it looks like it’s about to be Haiti. Is an invasion there ok with you?

[Jampie]

By that logic, NATO was desperate when it attacked the Serbian power grid in the opening days of their bombing campaign there.

Whataboutism. Another classic kremlin troll tactic.

Honestly you've been so quiet lately I was beginning to think you'd been conscripted.

[andy6025]

Whataboutism. Another classic kremlin troll tactic.

Honestly you've been so quiet lately I was beginning to think you'd been conscripted.

You: Russia is so weak and desperate, they attacked Ukraine’s power grid!

Me: The US also attacked the power grids in both Serbia and Iraq, but they won.

You: Whataboutism! Whataboutism! Whataboutism!!! You must be a Kremlin bot!!!


Lol, no. Nobody’s a bot here. I’m just showing you how absurdly ridiculous your claims are. Try thinking before you type.

[Jampie]

You: Russia is so weak and desperate, they attacked Ukraine’s power grid!

With Iranian drones.

Me: The US also attacked the power grids in both Serbia and Iraq, but they won.

You: Quick, make this about wars that ended decades ago and cherry pick like mad!

Are you seriously comparing the FARCE enacted by Russia in Ukraine to either Desert storm or 2003? Ye gods.

[Jampie]

Peace after Russia has handed back every last postage stamp of land they stole, returned every citizen they abducted and paid about a trillion bucks to repair the damage they caused to civilian infrastructure and homes.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are people of low to zero moral character who think it's ok to invade a country and annexe bits of it.