O/T:- Dogs

[ncfcog]

Great thread.

We got our dog Mikey about 4.5 years ago. He's a miniature schnauzer although he is very much on the big size for a mini. To say he's been hard work is an understatement. He's always been an anxious dog but when he was still very young two things happened that changed him for the worst.

Firstly, shortly after we got him we were selling our house and a couple came to view with two young boys. When I opened the door to greet them their two boy's came charging into the house screaming and shouting before I hade even invited the family in. They ran into the living room where my wife was sat with a very frightened puppy and the boys started to try and grab him whilst making loud barking noises. They were absolutely dreadful and I couldn't wait for them to leave. Mikey was in a bit of a state after that.

Shortly after that during a morning walk on the park he was attacked by another dog that was off the lead. It was that bad my wife had to pick our dog up whilst I tried to separate the other dogs jaws from our dogs back. As you can imagine this was a terrifying ordeal for all of us and the owner of the other dog simply said he's never behaved like that before and walked off.

Because of these incidents our Mikey is now a very reactive dog and will lunge and bark at anyone or anything that comes within 20ft of us. I reckon we have spent well into the thousands on special training and dog behaviourists etc to try and calm him down and although he is a little better now he's still very reactive.

Like others have said owning a dog isn't always what it is cracked up to be. I know we have a bit of a reputation around our way due to Mikey's "aggressive" behaviour, but it isn't aggression he's just very reactive.

I know this post is dragging on a bit but we have learned so much about dogs due to Mikey's nature that I don't think we would have with a friendlier dog. I know some fantastic dog owners in our area and they are all aware and understanding of Mikey's behaviour. There are others mind that are just clueless and even when we try to avoid people with dogs we don't know and have a flag on the lead warning people he is an anxious dog some still insist on their dog coming over to us to say hello but then look disgusted when they are met with a defensive reactive dog.

I have no issue with people who don't like dogs, each to their own, but people do need to understand dogs have a threshold and when they reach this there is often no turning back. Imagine a ladder with the bottom rung being calm and the top rung being your dogs threshold.

When you take it out for a walk it's calm but a little excited so probably on rung two. It's a windy day and a crisp packet blow's in front of you startling your dog, he's just climbed another rung on the ladder to threshold. These little things keep building up until eventually your dog is just one rung from threshold. Another dog owner insists on coming over to say hello, your grip tightens on the lead and you try warning them but they don't care. Your dog is aware of this, can feel your tension through the lead and by the time the other dog get's near you with it's owner your dog is in full on defence mode and at threshold so starts barking and lunging at the other dog and it's owner. They quickly retreat whilst giving you dirty looks and suggesting your dog is not normal and needs better training. I would suggest they are the ones that need the further education!

Despite the challenges we continue to have with Mikey I wouldn't change him for the world, he quite literally is my best mate. Also, I would have no problem with paying for a dog licence, linked to the dogs microchip and renewal should be made via the vet when having the dogs annual booster etc.

[andy6025]

And yet, without them maybe you wouldn't exist!

Not sure what you mean there, but I’ll guess that you’re suggesting that the birth and survival of civilization is/was dependent on dogs. While I won’t deny that dogs were at one time useful (and still are in some minor capacities), I’ll leave it to you to *prove* that they were *necessary* for the neolithic. I’d also challenge you to prove that humans (and/or dogs) would have gone extinct without the neolithic itself. Besides, even if dogs did help guard the food supply in that transformative time, we’re a long way from needing them in our small houses and apartments in our modern industrialized setting.

People who actively dislike dogs are usually weird, it's certainly no surprise that you're one.

QUOTE=crazyfists;39791878]Yeah I don't trust people who don't like dogs, I think they can sense the dog will find their personality out as lacking.[/QUOTE]

These two fall under the same category of dog-owner-nuttery - that there’s something wrong with people that don’t like dogs, and it’s usually followed by the completely batty idea that somehow dogs are the ultimate judges of decent character. Well here’s a paradox for you - Hitler was dog owner to 3 German Shepherds. Was he weird? Of course he was. Was he trustworthy? Ask Neville. Did his dogs know that he was a cnut? No, of course not. They are idiot dogs and have no magical abilities to know good people from bad.

I think navy pie would really like the alsation that nearly bit my hand off a few years back😁

Spot on. And don’t get me started on idiots that get pit bulls. They’re fecking land sharks. Gotta have rocks in your head to take on such a dangerous liability.

Then surely it's the owners who are awful...

Given that I said that the vast majority of dogs are not properly trained, it follows that the vast majority of dogs owners are a problem- when it comes to dog ownership. They can be great people in other respects, so I’m not so dumb as to think that by (lack of) virtue of owning dogs they are bad people- as some other simpletons throw about to those that don’t like dogs. But at this point does it matter? The dogs are a nuisance. The owners are oblivious to its problems and get upset if you don’t fawn over their pupper doggo good boies (they even invented an obnoxious language). Are dogs truly noble at heart if only uncorrupted by bad owners? Go meet some wild dogs and see if that answers the question.

Yeah why would anyone want a loyal friend who loves you no matter what you've got in your life, who makes you a better person, gives you exercise, doesn't back stab you or **** you over for money or their base needs, who can sense illness and give blind people a life. Rather a dog than a human any day of the week for me.

Right, and they said i was the one with the personality disorder. If your social skills and self esteem are so lacking that you need this magically loyal beast to feel love, then I truly feel sorry for you. Perhaps we should blame your owners, I mean parents. And I hate to break it to you - the dog doesn’t love you. It loves the food that you give it.

I despise any animal cruelty !

Agreed. I also despise animal cruelty. However, unless one is vegan, and i am not, then we fall foul of our own rule (no pun intended). Sure China has a poor reputation for the treatment of its meat supply, but that goes for all its meat. But I don’t see why we should discriminate between dogs, pigs, cows, chickens, cats, etc.

[SwalePie]

If you think dogs 'only' love us for the food you're plain wrong Andy. I have to say that the vast majority of dog behaviour problems are due to poor (or even no) training and poor ownership usually displaying a worrying lack of responsibility. Dogs are not toys and should be treated and respected as a loyal companion who has the inherent 'potential' to do harm. A responsible dog owner makes an enormous commitment to their duty of care to the public and to livestock and is always aware of the potential for harm. A well trained dog could change your mind IMHO.

[andy6025]

If you think dogs 'only' love us for the food you're plain wrong Andy.

Have your neighbour feed it for a month instead and see where the dogs loyalties lie.

[SwalePie]

Have your neighbour feed it for a month instead and see where the dogs loyalties lie.

Yes done that many times Andy. Having to travel on business for extended periods has often required me to do so. I can confirm that my dogs' loyalties did not change.

I know a dog person is unlikely to change the mind of a non-dog person (as in most personal opinion situations, especially online) but from extended personal experience, particularly of extremely well-trained working dogs of various types, I have to disagree with some of what you say - but admittedly, and in the interest of fairness, not all of it.

ETA: Irresponsible dog ownership drives good dog owners crazy too. I particularly despise those who 'weaponise' dogs, deliberately training them to attack, in order to make themselves seem tough. It's disgraceful.

[andy6025]

If you think dogs 'only' love us for the food you're plain wrong Andy. I have to say that the vast majority of dog behaviour problems are due to poor (or even no) training and poor ownership and often a lack of responsibility. Dogs are not toys and should be treated and respected as a loyal companion who has the inherent 'potential' to do harm. A responsible dog owner makes an enormous commitment to their duty of care to the public, to livestock and is always aware of the potential for harm. A well trained dog could change your mind IMHO.

Such dog owners are extremely rare. Even then, as a poster above noted - there’s still massive potential for problems. They are unpredictable animals. Anything can set them off *despite* massive efforts to train them.

In my neighborhood we have a small group of coyotes that come down through my street at night and head to the lake.

My neighbour has a German shepherd that he spends countless hours training. You’d see him taking several steps and teaching the dog to stay with him at all times, stop when he stops, wait for a command before eating, etc. Truly one of the ‘admirable’ owners that is doing it “right.” It even got to the point that when he walks the dog at night, he’s able to unleash the dog when out for a stroll.

And then several nights ago the coyotes came down the street while he was coming out of his house. His dog tore after the coyotes barking up a storm. It’s lucky they didn’t make a meal of him. I stood and watched. Eventually it came back unharmed. But now any time the dog seed other dogs, *any other dogs, big or small* it goes berzerk and attacks them. The owner said to me, “now it thinks every dog is a coyote”, and he has difficulty controlling it around other dogs.

Of course it’s like that - it’s an animal with unpredictable instincts that are far more powerful than any training you can instil in them.

Bottom line, even the very rarely well trained dogs can and do act uncontrollably and dangerously. Most dog owners don’t even go to that much trouble.

[Ayeayeskipper]

I was walking home from work 2 years ago across the park and an alsatian ran across from the other side of the park, tore into my right arm and then my left wrist and I ended up in hospital. Has it made me abit more wary of those dogs yes but the owner shouldn't have let it off its lead and the way it went at me it could have been an ex police dog. As Cher said it's the owners who are the problem sometimes, the dog is a product of its environment.

Dogs are trained assassins mate, I spotted this one lurking in the bushes on the park just now.

[andy6025]

Dogs are trained assassins mate, I spotted this one lurking in the bushes on the park just now.

Looks tasty.

[SwalePie]

Such dog owners are extremely rare. Even then, as a poster above noted - there’s still massive potential for problems. They are unpredictable animals. Anything can set them off *despite* massive efforts to train them.

In my neighborhood we have a small group of coyotes that come down through my street at night and head to the lake.

My neighbour has a German shepherd that he spends countless hours training. You’d see him taking several steps and teaching the dog to stay with him at all times, stop when he stops, wait for a command before eating, etc. Truly one of the ‘admirable’ owners that is doing it “right.” It even got to the point that when he walks the dog at night, he’s able to unleash the dog when out for a stroll.

And then several nights ago the coyotes came down the street while he was coming out of his house. His dog tore after the coyotes barking up a storm. It’s lucky they didn’t make a meal of him. I stood and watched. Eventually it came back unharmed. But now any time the dog seed other dogs, *any other dogs, big or small* it goes berzerk and attacks them. The owner said to me, “now it thinks every dog is a coyote”, and he has difficulty controlling it around other dogs.

Of course it’s like that - it’s an animal with unpredictable instincts that are far more powerful than any training you can instil in them.

Bottom line, even the very rarely well trained dogs can and do act uncontrollably and dangerously. Most dog owners don’t even go to that much trouble.

Indeed, even the best trained dog is still a dog. We see stories of people allowing their dogs off-lead near livestock all the time too. The usual 'He's never done that before' excuse is unacceptable. Keep the dog on a lead unless you are absolutely certain of the circumstances around you.

Here's yet another sad example from just the other day in which the disgraceful dogs' owners didn't even bother to report it, or more likely knew that their dogs would be destroyed and chose not to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-57292360

[andy6025]

Indeed, even the best trained dog is still a dog. We see stories of people allowing their dogs off-lead near livestock all the time too. The usual 'He's never done that before' excuse is unacceptable. Keep the dog on a lead unless you are absolutely certain of the circumstances around you.

Here's yet another sad example from just the other day in which the disgraceful dogs' owners didn't even bother to report it https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-57292360

Exactly, and just confirms that allowing people to own dogs as pets outside of a necessary work environment (such as herding, guide dogs, etc) is foolish. Whether it’s people/owners that are the problem, or the dogs, doesn’t really matter. It’s a bad mix.