Wimbledon post match reflections

[Townerslovechild]

Overall Saturday was a slight improvement, but still no where near good enough, for long enough, which has been the problem for most of the season.
Hopefully this is the start of another unbeaten run,with a few more wins,because realistically that's how we get out of this.
However, this won't be enough for some as they have had an issue with Hamshaw from the start for some reason.
Maybe he nicked their Monster Munch at school.

[UlleyMiller]

Overall Saturday was a slight improvement, but still no where near good enough, for long enough, which has been the problem for most of the season.
Hopefully this is the start of another unbeaten run,with a few more wins,because realistically that's how we get out of this.
However, this won't be enough for some as they have had an issue with Hamshaw from the start for some reason.
Maybe he nicked their Monster Munch at school.

I was at the same school, he wasn't nicking anyone's crisps.

[fivetide]

Ok so here's a question - everyone saying has to be 442 or 433, four at the back at least - does MH actually think he has the players for that? Maybe the brief period in that game we looked good he had the players he knew could do it. Perhaps, he reckons we'd be even worse trying 442 with different players?

He's said a big clear out coming, he's also made a few signings, any thinking that maybe he's signing the players we need to do that - or even more controversially, is trying to sign the players that will go with the formation he wants?

Don't most sides play 4231 or variations these days too? Looking up north for teams with little cash and focused on development, Falkirk (4231) put four past Hibs (3412) at the weekend with a lad they signed from a University side up front scoring a hat trick of tap ins. They look really good to watch playing out from the back. Be worth a look at the highlights.

[UlleyMiller]

Ok so here's a question - everyone saying has to be 442 or 433, four at the back at least - does MH actually think he has the players for that? Maybe the brief period in that game we looked good he had the players he knew could do it. Perhaps, he reckons we'd be even worse trying 442 with different players?

He's said a big clear out coming, he's also made a few signings, any thinking that maybe he's signing the players we need to do that - or even more controversially, is trying to sign the players that will go with the formation he wants?

Don't most sides play 4231 or variations these days too? Looking up north for teams with little cash and focused on development, Falkirk (4231) put four past Hibs (3412) at the weekend with a lad they signed from a University side up front scoring a hat trick of tap ins. They look really good to watch playing out from the back. Be worth a look at the highlights.

Not speaking on behalf of others, but it feels to me like the frustration (the genuine one, not the noise from the trolls) is that he's not changing it at all. Decent L1 players should be able to operate in two or three different systems without much fuss, but Hamshaw seems frustratingly reluctant to change it despite it looking like being one of the major reasons we're down in 23rd.

It looks like the plan is to continue to bring the average age down (fully support this) and to develop players rather than gamble on older pro's who've 'done it' before (support this also), but the formation should adapt to the available players and the opposition, not to be part of the club identity irrespective of everything else.

As the season has gone on, it's become clear that whatever else we're dealing with, we normally have two centre backs available (mostly, although a couple of games we didn't have that), and two able to play full back. Whether it's 442, 451, 433, 4141, the back 4 is the bit we can fill properly. Next season, if MH is here, who knows, maybe he signs players suited to a 3... but for all the positives a back 3 may give, a back 4 will always unlock more options with the rest of the system.

[fivetide]

Not speaking on behalf of others, but it feels to me like the frustration (the genuine one, not the noise from the trolls) is that he's not changing it at all. Decent L1 players should be able to operate in two or three different systems without much fuss, but Hamshaw seems frustratingly reluctant to change it despite it looking like being one of the major reasons we're down in 23rd.

It looks like the plan is to continue to bring the average age down (fully support this) and to develop players rather than gamble on older pro's who've 'done it' before (support this also), but the formation should adapt to the available players and the opposition, not to be part of the club identity irrespective of everything else.

As the season has gone on, it's become clear that whatever else we're dealing with, we normally have two centre backs available (mostly, although a couple of games we didn't have that), and two able to play full back. Whether it's 442, 451, 433, 4141, the back 4 is the bit we can fill properly. Next season, if MH is here, who knows, maybe he signs players suited to a 3... but for all the positives a back 3 may give, a back 4 will always unlock more options with the rest of the system.

Some good and sensible points.

Agree, average age down and there is a chance some loan players will or could stay, we've seen that before if they feel settled and are hungry for game time.

So if we can sort of fill the back 4, what goes in front? Do we have the Arnie to run it out the back or play the killer pass to midfield? Do we have a Kevin Watson to spread the play wide? Do we have the buzzing forward to keep a defence occupied and create space between the lines? For 433 do we have the wide players capable of coming back to defend all the time and fill holes in the midfield? Or even someone who is a real ball winner in the middle who can run with it like Rathbone? That sort of thing. We have players but collectively, can they make a decent team? And i get a team of good players can be a terrible team. MH job has to be to make us more than the sum of our parts.

[UlleyMiller]

Some good and sensible points.

Agree, average age down and there is a chance some loan players will or could stay, we've seen that before if they feel settled and are hungry for game time.

So if we can sort of fill the back 4, what goes in front? Do we have the Arnie to run it out the back or play the killer pass to midfield? Do we have a Kevin Watson to spread the play wide? Do we have the buzzing forward to keep a defence occupied and create space between the lines? For 433 do we have the wide players capable of coming back to defend all the time and fill holes in the midfield? Or even someone who is a real ball winner in the middle who can run with it like Rathbone? That sort of thing. We have players but collectively, can they make a decent team? And i get a team of good players can be a terrible team. MH job has to be to make us more than the sum of our parts.

We have Spence next season who can be a solid CDM, but I don't know what the plan is for those around him. I guess the division we're in, how much we can spend, etc will play a part in whether that's another loanee like Gore (Gore and Spence would both offer comfort for a back 4), or if we look at two 'old fashioned' midfielders who operate left and right as part of a 3. Guesswork as to how we'd approach it because there are so many unknowns.

Personally I'd love nothing more than to commit a sizeable chunk to getting Gore on a permanent, but I don't know if 1) we'd be comfortable parting with (likely) a million quid for a centre mid, 2) he'd want to stay, or 3) if we'd be in L1 (L2 would be a non-starter).

[RU66]

No matter what formation you play League One is route 1 football need to get the heart of your side strong. Dawson centre backs get in but we have no holding player in midfield or a big forward. Gore Spence together could do that job in centre mid as long as one stays back.

[Old_time_miller]

Never mind about next year, it’s now that needs sorting. Looking at all the below champs signings in the window so far they are all loans or free ones. So, paying out now till summer on loans is perfectly feasible. But he seemingly won’t or waiting for the cheap end.