O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[Jampie]

If the chechens hold a referendum and vote to leave Russia should just lettem form an independent state?

[LaxtonLad]

Ok, so in this hypothetical scenario Scotland votes for independence from the UK, the remainder of the UK invades to squash the separatists and then Scotland appeals to outside forces for military assistance?

I’m sure plenty of people would find it acceptable to give Scotland military assistance in such a scenario, which could even include invading London.

And I'm sure there are plenty more people who would cheerfully wave bye-bye to the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish too. Not every one is as 'acceptable' to mobilising a military force to prevent a separation as you might think. They might form one to prevent their coming back though.

[andy6025]

And I'm sure there are plenty more people who would cheerfully wave bye-bye to the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish too. Not every one is as 'acceptable' to mobilising a military force to prevent a separation as you might think. They might form one to prevent their coming back though.

Lol, we definitely needed some comic relief in this Fred.

[andy6025]

If the chechens hold a referendum and vote to leave Russia should just lettem form an independent state?

Yes, don’t you?

If you really want to make this challenging, then why not ask about the American civil war... the people of the south clearly wanted independence... but then again, which people? All of them? A majority even? What about the black people who weren’t even considered an entire person? Do people have a right to self determination while enslaving others?

In such a case I side with the union.

[Old_pie]

By all means if (as Elon Musk suggests) the votes ought to be held again as part of a peace process, then be my guest. Hell, if they want to have a referendum every 5-10 years to go back and forth at will, you’ll get no objection from me either.

At gun point or not? Internationally recognised or not?

You mention "peace talks" but every time a significant international event or visit takes place Putin just lobs more missiles over with a clear "fluck you" message.

[andy6025]

At gun point or not? Internationally recognised or not?

You mention "peace talks" but every time a significant international event or visit takes place Putin just lobs more missiles over with a clear "fluck you" message.

I’ve answered many of your questions. Now it’s your turn to answer one for me,

Take a quick look at this article from the NYT about an election in Iraq. What do you see in the photo? Would you also describe that election to be “at gunpoint”? Do you think it’s election results were legit? And try to be consistent.

https://archive.ph/H3LTm

[Jampie]

Yes, don’t you?

If you really want to make this challenging, then why not ask about the American civil war... the people of the south clearly wanted independence... but then again, which people? All of them? A majority even? What about the black people who weren’t even considered an entire person? Do people have a right to self determination while enslaving others?

In such a case I side with the union.

I'm just blown away you're potentially siding against russia there... even if it's in theory only. First time for everything I suppose!

[andy6025]

I'm just blown away you're potentially siding against russia there... even if it's in theory only. First time for everything I suppose!

I think that’s perhaps one of many differences between us. For you it’s “my side, do or die”, whereas I’m hoping to see a peace settlement that they can all get behind, otherwise at best you’re just kicking the can down the road.

[Jampie]

I think that’s perhaps one of many differences between us. For you it’s “my side, do or die”, whereas I’m hoping to see a peace settlement that they can all get behind, otherwise at best you’re just kicking the can down the road.

That's one of the many differences between us. I can remember all the previous agreements with Ukraine that Russia broke, and I can accept that they aren't a reliable party to agreements anymore.

[andy6025]

That's one of the many differences between us. I can remember all the previous agreements with Ukraine that Russia broke, and I can accept that they aren't a reliable party to agreements anymore.

I think both sides feel the same way in that regard.