O/T Sarah Champion

[monty_rhodes]

Ragingpup, you seem a decent bloke but the vision you peddle of your "moderate Muslim" pals "moving forward" with us - presumably to some undefined multicultural Utopia - is a good laugh. You clearly haven't visited any northern towns lately or, if you have, you have failed to notice that segregation is increasing and Muslim communities that 20 years ago seemed to be integrating are now treading a noticably Islamic path.
I also love your idea that we who disagree with your vision are somehow backwoodsmen. If defending the virtues of the Enlightenment, if supporting the emancipation of women and gays, if upholding the idea of democracy and free speech, if preferring science to a superstition spawned in the deserts of the Middle East, if being able to laugh at cartoons rather than behead the cartoonist, then I'm proud to be a backwoodman and you and the other Islamophiles are massively wrong and one day will be confronted with the consequences of your folly.

[great_fire]

Ragingpup, you seem a decent bloke but the vision you peddle of your "moderate Muslim" pals "moving forward" with us - presumably to some undefined multicultural Utopia - is a good laugh.

And entirely fictional.

[ragingpup]

Ragingpup, you seem a decent bloke but the vision you peddle of your "moderate Muslim" pals "moving forward" with us - presumably to some undefined multicultural Utopia - is a good laugh. You clearly haven't visited any northern towns lately or, if you have, you have failed to notice that segregation is increasing and Muslim communities that 20 years ago seemed to be integrating are now treading a noticably Islamic path.
I also love your idea that we who disagree with your vision are somehow backwoodsmen. If defending the virtues of the Enlightenment, if supporting the emancipation of women and gays, if upholding the idea of democracy and free speech, if preferring science to a superstition spawned in the deserts of the Middle East, if being able to laugh at cartoons rather than behead the cartoonist, then I'm proud to be a backwoodman and you and the other Islamophiles are massively wrong and one day will be confronted with the consequences of your folly.

Firstly let me defend myself against the sense of superiority you seem to have gotten from my post. I asked, complete with question mark, if the differences we perceive in talking to moderate Muslims might be to do with the areas we are from? I wasn't asserting that to be the case, sorry if it came over that way. I even cast doubt on my own proposition by saying that we also have some more entrenched communities here, but not just Muslim. But I can only speak of my own area in Wanstead, Leyton, Leytonstone where there is none of your puerile, sarcastic utopia, but people mix very well and the schools are a complete cultural hotchpotch but have great success rates. That's all. That's my experience, Can I express mine as you've expressed yours? I'm happy to hear others experiences that are different but then I might question them, but I don't think I belittle them?

I come from Rotherham, lived there for 25 years, many of these were lived in central Rotherham, I lived also in the 'Asian' area of Wakefield and my family all still live in Rotherham. My brother and sister in law both work in the community services in Rotherham so I'm not as ignorant of "oop North" as you might think. They see things very differently to you, and are more concerned with the rise of Islamophobia in the town. By contrast, my old best mate has bought fully into the Islamophobia and would be in agreement with the far right folks on here. Who's right? Just exploring.

Also if I may say so, it's a tad rich to be belittling my fanciful utopian words whilst speaking of "defending the virtues of enlightenment" etc! Fine words indeed, but let me also point out that I've also read everything by Hitchens, Dawkins and our lovable cut price comic version Fry; proper thrusting and quite brilliant academics and proponents of rationality, logic and objectivity. But not one of them would reduce themselves to your unresearched, lazy and unjustified assertion that "segregation is increasing and Muslim communities that 20 years ago seemed to be integrating are now treading a noticably Islamic path". If you're going to promote a scientific approach to life (and I'd applaud anyone doing so), then try applying that to your statements on here lad!

So touche bruv! Peace! Let's say you're right and the Muslim community are becoming more entrenched in towns like Rotherham, and let's also say that the majority are as you feel they are, archaic values that clash with our own and unwilling to adapt despite the positive and friendly and welcoming best efforts of the local white community, what do you think we should do about it? You raise genuine concerns that do despite my flurry above, deserve consideration. I've offered ideas on abolishment of any religious schools, organised compulsory mixed culture schools so parents from Muslim, white and other communities are forced to send their children to school together where they are taught acceptance and tolerance so that they can do that better than us. What ideas do you have to move towards solving the problems you raise?

[Slimchance]

Firstly let me defend myself against the sense of superiority you seem to have gotten from my post. I asked, complete with question mark, if the differences we perceive in talking to moderate Muslims might be to do with the areas we are from? I wasn't asserting that to be the case, sorry if it came over that way. I even cast doubt on my own proposition by saying that we also have some more entrenched communities here, but not just Muslim. But I can only speak of my own area in Wanstead, Leyton, Leytonstone where there is none of your puerile, sarcastic utopia, but people mix very well and the schools are a complete cultural hotchpotch but have great success rates. That's all. That's my experience, Can I express mine as you've expressed yours? I'm happy to hear others experiences that are different but then I might question them, but I don't think I belittle them?

I come from Rotherham, lived there for 25 years, many of these were lived in central Rotherham, I lived also in the 'Asian' area of Wakefield and my family all still live in Rotherham. My brother and sister in law both work in the community services in Rotherham so I'm not as ignorant of "oop North" as you might think. They see things very differently to you, and are more concerned with the rise of Islamophobia in the town. By contrast, my old best mate has bought fully into the Islamophobia and would be in agreement with the far right folks on here. Who's right? Just exploring.

Also if I may say so, it's a tad rich to be belittling my fanciful utopian words whilst speaking of "defending the virtues of enlightenment" etc! Fine words indeed, but let me also point out that I've also read everything by Hitchens, Dawkins and our lovable cut price comic version Fry; proper thrusting and quite brilliant academics and proponents of rationality, logic and objectivity. But not one of them would reduce themselves to your unresearched, lazy and unjustified assertion that "segregation is increasing and Muslim communities that 20 years ago seemed to be integrating are now treading a noticably Islamic path". If you're going to promote a scientific approach to life (and I'd applaud anyone doing so), then try applying that to your statements on here lad!

So touche bruv! Peace! Let's say you're right and the Muslim community are becoming more entrenched in towns like Rotherham, and let's also say that the majority are as you feel they are, archaic values that clash with our own and unwilling to adapt despite the positive and friendly and welcoming best efforts of the local white community, what do you think we should do about it? You raise genuine concerns that do despite my flurry above, deserve consideration. I've offered ideas on abolishment of any religious schools, organised compulsory mixed culture schools so parents from Muslim, white and other communities are forced to send their children to school together where they are taught acceptance and tolerance so that they can do that better than us. What ideas do you have to move towards solving the problems you raise?

If the politicians and you don't accept there is a problem then nothing will change.

[ragingpup]

If the politicians and you don't accept there is a problem then nothing will change.

I've said repeatedly that I agree there is a problem and that Chapion was absolutely right to speak out about it. Not sure how many times I have to say it? To try and 1) put a problem in context and 2) stop people using the problem as an excuse to vent their obvious bigotry is NOT to deny the problem, or to stop us doing something about it.

I've even offered some general ideas on how we could go about improving the issue, fazing faith schools, forced school integration, education outreach led by Muslim leaders. Might these work? Are they on the right lines? What other realistic and workable solutions do you have? Or anyone else interested in this issue? All I seem to read are people harping on about their perception of the problem.

[Exiletyke]

I've said repeatedly that I agree there is a problem and that Chapion was absolutely right to speak out about it. Not sure how many times I have to say it? To try and 1) put a problem in context and 2) stop people using the problem as an excuse to vent their obvious bigotry is NOT to deny the problem, or to stop us doing something about it.

I've even offered some general ideas on how we could go about improving the issue, fazing faith schools, forced school integration, education outreach led by Muslim leaders. Might these work? Are they on the right lines? What other realistic and workable solutions do you have? Or anyone else interested in this issue? All I seem to read are people harping on about their perception of the problem.

I have read with interest your comments on this thread & your prolific & often lengthy comments on many other threads at all times of the day
I note that you are employed in a SMT of a London College
My question to you is how come you have all this time during your supposed working day to research/prepare/ compose all these posts
Who's paying your wages while you use this considerable amount of your employers time in pursuing your hobby?
Is your college tax payer funded?
Just asking

[monty_rhodes]

I have read with interest your comments on this thread & your prolific & often lengthy comments on many other threads at all times of the day
I note that you are employed in a SMT of a London College
My question to you is how come you have all this time during your supposed working day to research/prepare/ compose all these posts
Who's paying your wages while you use this considerable amount of your employers time in pursuing your hobby?
Is your college tax payer funded?
Just asking

Exile, for my sins (years ago a member of the SWP) I still get approached by old comrades to go on anti-Fascist demos, Support Asylum Seekers Marches and the rest. All the people involved are either in Adult Education, Social Work, Community Services, actors or Community Liaison officers.
I don't take them seriously just as I barely read the drivel of lefties on here. But Ragingpup would be heavily criticised by the Islamophile mob up here for suggesting "We all move forward Together" and espousing the benefits of "integration". Those ideas are considered racist and to advocate them is to be guilty of "cultural hegemony". The mob up here actually picket Council Planning meetings demanding approval for mosques and consistently support proposals for Muslim faith schools. The left doesn't know its rrse from its elbow but as you see on here they are all weighed down with guilt and self-loathing.

[ragingpup]

I have read with interest your comments on this thread & your prolific & often lengthy comments on many other threads at all times of the day
I note that you are employed in a SMT of a London College
My question to you is how come you have all this time during your supposed working day to research/prepare/ compose all these posts
Who's paying your wages while you use this considerable amount of your employers time in pursuing your hobby?
Is your college tax payer funded?
Just asking

Hi Exile. Thanks for the interest in my working patterns. I have holidays and flexible working patterns, sometimes going in late and finishing late, sometimes breaks in the day when working late. I work on average about 60 hours a week. And have a 5 year old! I'm knackered man!

On holiday at the moment.

Is that ok with you?

[ragingpup]

And entirely fictional.

You could, just as a suggestion here, try and produce at least one cohesive (or even otherwise, I'll accept non cohesive if you at least try) response to one of the many challenges I've made on your opinions! You seem to take great pride in throwing out all kinds of prejudiced bigoted life observations but when asked to back em up, simply clsm up! Poor show!

[gm_gm]

I think that many in media accept it (The times ran a good article), professor Jay and her predecessor spoke about it being a cultural problem, the police chief in Newcastle said it was a problem in Pakistani culture and that the police would take part in a debate if asked.

Majid Nawaaz on LBC has commented on it....theres still over 70 *****s at large in Rotherham (according to the reports that over 100 people involved) and 35 police offers are under investigation still! The councillors seemed to have escaped justice