ot unvaccinated nhs staff

[gm_gm]

My issue with this is that could make it personal choice to wash their hands. People still get infections in hospital. We still have outbreaks of flesh eating bacteria so does that mean we should stop cleaning hospitals because most people don't get it and some people will anyway?

I'd rather medical staff urged on the side of caution and lessened the risk. That includes hand washing and getting jabbed.

The only argument you can make is that VMs are ideological and political, its no longer to do with health and science or even "the science"

[Slimchance]

Can we all agree that the jab does not stop you getting the virus or passing it on.

Therefore if you are in a high risk group, the people you come into contact with can pass it on to you if they are jabbed or not.

So the best you can do if you are vulnerable is get jabbed and reduce the amount of contact with others, be they jabbed or not.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I think a dangerous new sect is emerging: fundamentalist pro-vaxers.

It's pretty obvious now that the fear about the virus does not match its severity. It was even downgraded as an illness in March 2020.

What happens then is that those people who can't accept that they have been scared out of their wits by government scaremongering become even more militant about their original opinion.

A bit like born again Christians who cannot accept that there are inconsistencies in their views. Rather than take these on board they become even more fundamentalist....to save face.


* Just to clarify, I do think there is a virus which is very dangerous for some. Just thought I would put that in for those that do not understand nuance and shades of grey.

[ragingpup]

I think a dangerous new sect is emerging: fundamentalist pro-vaxers.

It's pretty obvious now that the fear about the virus does not match its severity. It was even downgraded as an illness in March 2020.

What happens then is that those people who can't accept that they have been scared out of their wits by government scaremongering become even more militant about their original opinion.

A bit like born again Christians who cannot accept that there are inconsistencies in their views. Rather than take these on board they become even more fundamentalist....to save face.


* Just to clarify, I do think there is a virus which is very dangerous for some. Just thought I would put that in for those that do not understand nuance and shades of grey.

Can't say I know that many fundamentalist anti vaccers. But I know of many that simply take the emerging pandemic as something that at first we didn't understand, was quite severe as an illness (Alpha/Delta attacking the lung tissue) and therefore government responded (quite slowly in many people's opinion) with lockdown and various other contingencies as we got more info. I would agree that much media responded poorly with an over emphasis on extreme cases but we all know they are click whores so no surprise there surely?

But as Omicron has emerged, mainly affecting the upper lung area making it more infectious and less serious, I think most are aware that the health dangers are much less and it seems to me that restrictions are being sensibly lifted. I know of some people who are still very scared of going out, some beyond reason, but to call them fundamentalist is very blinkered, especially as you are trying to claim to understand nuance. I'm sure there are extreme opinions on the cautious side out there, but unfortuantely there are just as many on the other side claiming conspiracies everywhere, when we've simply responded in a bungled, confused but sometimes in an efficiant and inspiring way as a society to a new disease outbreak.

If you're going to claim to be able to discern nuance, try practicing it yourself?

[frogmiller]

The Doctor Who Fooled the World: Andrew Wakefield’s War on Vaccines

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02989-9

[Derbymiller]

taking part in medical experiements is a personal decision and attacking people that don't because based on risk assessment and personal reseach using their right for informed consent is something that our fathers and grandfathers fought for. One of the few things that came out of WW2 was the Nuremberg code, and forcing vaccinations and medical experiments on people was stopped. We have to protect personal freedoms and liberties. I worked for 5 years in the Clinical Trial business and I know how to look at the data and how to assess risk of drugs and treatments and let me tell you this, there is not enough data on these experimental vaccines and what has been forced to be realeased following the US court hearings should scare the crap out of you, this is all about rich people getting richer and NOTHING to do with health, this is about making people dependent on large pharma for the rest of your lives. I suggest before people start wanting to sack people and discriminate against people and support a government that wants to force the citizens it is supposed to represent into medical experiements you turn off your TV news, stop buying newspapers and pick up the scientific articles and data and some history books and see what is happening here. Also check out the wording of the recent Police act and the proposed changes to the UK Human Rights act and then you will see what the establishmnet has in line for you, your children and your gand children, that is ALL parties. Please don't let those bas****s turn us against each other and divide us, think outside the box and support each other when we exercise our freedoms and our rights, because next time it could be YOU

[CAMiller]

taking part in medical experiements is a personal decision and attacking people that don't because based on risk assessment and personal reseach using their right for informed consent is something that our fathers and grandfathers fought for. One of the few things that came out of WW2 was the Nuremberg code, and forcing vaccinations and medical experiments on people was stopped. We have to protect personal freedoms and liberties. I worked for 5 years in the Clinical Trial business and I know how to look at the data and how to assess risk of drugs and treatments and let me tell you this, there is not enough data on these experimental vaccines and what has been forced to be realeased following the US court hearings should scare the crap out of you, this is all about rich people getting richer and NOTHING to do with health, this is about making people dependent on large pharma for the rest of your lives. I suggest before people start wanting to sack people and discriminate against people and support a government that wants to force the citizens it is supposed to represent into medical experiements you turn off your TV news, stop buying newspapers and pick up the scientific articles and data and some history books and see what is happening here. Also check out the wording of the recent Police act and the proposed changes to the UK Human Rights act and then you will see what the establishmnet has in line for you, your children and your gand children, that is ALL parties. Please don't let those bas****s turn us against each other and divide us, think outside the box and support each other when we exercise our freedoms and our rights, because next time it could be YOU

Thanks for clearing that up Derby. While you are at it can you answer 'Did man land on the moon?' and 'Who shot JFK?' as it would settle a few arguments on here

[Slimchance]

taking part in medical experiements is a personal decision and attacking people that don't because based on risk assessment and personal reseach using their right for informed consent is something that our fathers and grandfathers fought for. One of the few things that came out of WW2 was the Nuremberg code, and forcing vaccinations and medical experiments on people was stopped. We have to protect personal freedoms and liberties. I worked for 5 years in the Clinical Trial business and I know how to look at the data and how to assess risk of drugs and treatments and let me tell you this, there is not enough data on these experimental vaccines and what has been forced to be realeased following the US court hearings should scare the crap out of you, this is all about rich people getting richer and NOTHING to do with health, this is about making people dependent on large pharma for the rest of your lives. I suggest before people start wanting to sack people and discriminate against people and support a government that wants to force the citizens it is supposed to represent into medical experiements you turn off your TV news, stop buying newspapers and pick up the scientific articles and data and some history books and see what is happening here. Also check out the wording of the recent Police act and the proposed changes to the UK Human Rights act and then you will see what the establishmnet has in line for you, your children and your gand children, that is ALL parties. Please don't let those bas****s turn us against each other and divide us, think outside the box and support each other when we exercise our freedoms and our rights, because next time it could be YOU

I dont disagree with what you have put, could you put your qualifications down please, as I hope you are a doctor and not the tea lady at the clinical test facility.
Hopefully you can help us plebs understand the data better.

[LincsMiller]

What if a hospital cleaner refused to use disinfectant because it made her fell a bit queasy ?, a porter won't wheel an old lady down to X-ray because the rays might harm him? Simple, get another job

[CAMiller]

What if a hospital cleaner refused to use disinfectant because it made her fell a bit queasy ?, a porter won't wheel an old lady down to X-ray because the rays might harm him? Simple, get another job

A bit stereotypical there Lincs with regards who's doing the cleaning