The United Kingdom

[mondo_notion]

bang on.

Vote no for nonce.

The yes campaign can have that one for nothing.

[Buc]

Some reading here about the Butchers Apron


https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/02/446556.html

[threestripes]

That has to be the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on here.

Ah... you're new here eh?

[Disco Buc]

For me I can't see anything nowadays good about the union the quicker we break free from the shackles the better ..

Too we too poor what a load of tosh.

The union flag has nothing but blood on it . But go on keep supporting it.
We are now fighting back and will keep fighting one thing the no campaign can't change tactics we know them very well now.

But the YES campaign will.
I can't see what Scottish people!e born in Scotland prefer to be ruled by Westminster .
We will be successful I'm sure of it.
There's much more to Scotland than oil it's a bonus which we haven't up to now benefited from..

[fatshaft]

Too we too poor what a load of tosh.

Absolutely. I understand Yoon politicians have to use it, it's their thing. I understand English public using it, they've been spoon fed the lie about Scottish handouts and have no media giving them the facts.

But when it comes to full on Scottish cringers, who actually seem to believe that despite every tin pot country in the world seemingly getting on with life, Scotland, and Scotland alone, somehow is incapable of looking after itself and would somehow be "bankrupt"? I just can't understand these people.

[Disco Buc]

Absolutely. I understand Yoon politicians have to use it, it's their thing. I understand English public using it, they've been spoon fed the lie about Scottish handouts and have no media giving them the facts.

But when it comes to full on Scottish cringers, who actually seem to believe that despite every tin pot country in the world seemingly getting on with life, Scotland, and Scotland alone, somehow is incapable of looking after itself and would somehow be "bankrupt"? I just can't understand these people.

Bang on FS.
When we go to Spain for 2-3 months in the spring, our south of the border friends appear to be over the top with what they say about Scotland .

But our our friends in Northern England are much much better with how they feel about the Scottish.

The argument they don't like is that we get more money than them per person they seem to think we get much more money than we put in. The other one is we pay for your university education and your free prescriptions.

But my wife a qualified nurse and brought up in London just says instead of moaning to us why don't you lot ask your government why you arent getting this. Point the finger at them.

I don't like to say this but the deep south are the ones who mostly want rid of us .
I'm very much laid back person but sometimes I can feel rather upset at what these folk say to me..

[Disco Buc]

The UK is one of the most disliked in the world making the top 10 .

Not surprising with that don't give a dam Westminster at the helm.

http://www.thetoptens.com/most-hated-countries/

Ouch

[sancho_panza]

The argument they don't like is that we get more money than them per person they seem to think we get much more money than we put in. The other one is we pay for your university education and your free prescriptions.

Saying the UK pays for our tuition fees/prescriptions isn't a valid argument because what we're talking about is the ability of Holyrood to decide to spend its own resources differently from how resources are spent in other parts of the country. It's pointless having devolution of spending powers if Scotland doesn't use its resources differently so there's always going to be something that people can point at and claim the rest of the UK is paying for. Obviously that's nonsense.

However is it fair to say we get more out than we put in? At this point in time that's absolutely the case. The latest figures (2015-16) indicated that we contributed around 7.9% of UK revenue and spent 9.1% of UK spending. See the full GERS figures here. Historically that wasn't always the case and it might well be in future the picture changes, but at this exact moment in time we put in less than we get back in proportionate terms.

Personally I think the case for independence has to start from that point and then explain how things would progress following independence. There's an opportunity to do that because of the impact Brexit will have on the UK economy. But if the case for independence is just to ignore the numbers then it's going to be an incredibly weak one. We can come up with a thousand reasons to do this (too wee, too poor; stop talking the country down; it's all lies/propaganda; other countries survive so why can't we) but it's still a weak argument if you aren't taking the figures head on. The figures will be plastered over posters, raised in every debate, and trumpeted in the media in a way that wasn't the case in 2014 (the SNP actually based its own case in 2014 on GERS as the position was more favourable). Ultimately there has to be a better response than what we've seen so far or the argument simply isn't going to win.

The political case for independence is strong at present. A lot of people, myself included, don't want to be part of a country that's ruled by people like Boris, Liam Fox and David Davis, while Labour are broadly unelectable. Yes would probably win a referendum quite comfortably at this point if the economic argument was 50/50 rather than lopsided in favour of staying in the UK. I'd vote for it myself. So coming up with a real response to that issue (rather than rhetoric) should be the key priority.

[Disco Buc]

Sancho have you a link to that gers figures please.

Edit to say just to see what they take into account.

[Disco Buc]

Here is another take on the gers figures .


http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk...unionist-gers/