Safe standing

[AnagRam]

As part of an attempt to move on positively from the Hillsborough debate and regardless of what any group of supporters may allegedly regard as 'disrespectful', isn't it now time for an intelligent discussion of safe standing.
The reaction to what happened at Hillsborough was as justified as the move away from wooden stands following the appalling Bradford tragedy but it was all well over a quarter of a century ago.
Stadium design has progressed enormously in that time and there is no comparison between the narrow, crumbling and semi decrepit weed ridden terraces of the old BBG to the substantial, relatively pristine concrete tiers in place at the iPro. This difference is replicated in stadiums all over the country and throughout the leagues, so with ground capacity, affordability, atmosphere and safety all in mind, let's have the debate and, as people that actually attend football matches, tell the authorities what needs doing.

[AdiSalisbury]

The only thing I'll ask, is why is football different to any other event? I'm sure most people know what it's like to attend a packed concert, I don't see the difference.

[Andy_Faber]

I think some seating areas should be nominated as 'standing' ie you buy a 'seat' but understand that it's effectively a 'pitch' and if you don't want to stand during the game all you'll see is the bloke in front's ****. I don't know what the safety issues, either real or imagined by H&S jobsworths, are. That's effectively what happens at many grounds anyway. We can't go back to the free-for-all that was the Pop Side, much as it was a lark for those of us who were fit and able

[Andy_Faber]

The only thing I'll ask, is why is football different to any other event? I'm sure most people know what it's like to attend a packed concert, I don't see the difference.

In response, 'it just is'. or was. I don't know how old you are but you may not have experienced two hours in a 'Kop'. I could go to a packed Kings Hall for a gig with my gf in the 70s no problem but wouldn't dream of taking her into the Pop Side.

[AnagRam]

But isn't that the point Andy? The only real difference between a lively 'gig' and a football match is the presence of terracing at the latter and thus possibly something to fall down.
Not sure how wide old fashioned stadium terrace 'steps' were but probably something like fif**** to eigh**** inches. Take the seating off an area of the iPro 'steps' and you've got a smooth, unbroken solid concrete step that's approaching one metre in width and, with the correct placement of modern state of the art crash barriers, should be infinitely safer than was the case in the Pop Side.
Arguably also safer than what you describe as currently happening in those parts of the ground where people have to buy seats but then choose to stand, with the back of the seat in front of them then presenting something akin to what I believe h&s folk refer to as a 'trip hazard'.

[roger_ramjet]

As far as I can tell, everyone "unsafe stands" at away games anyway. I am struggling to remember an away game in the past couple of years where my **** has made contact with a seat at any point in time during the game. This is noty of course a matter of choice on my part, but essentially if (say) 100 people decide to stand, then everyone has to stand or miss seeing the game.

Take the recent game at Chalton as a case in point. Just before kickoff, effectively a Mexican Wave rolled across the crowd as people had to stand up because the person in front has decided to. Within moments the entire away end was standing, and remained so until the match ended (except for a few people who watched the ****s of the people in front during halftime).

Was this safe? - well probably but not ideal. Is it what people wanted? - hard to say but as it was the only way to watch the game, they had no choice. Personally I would rather have had the opportunity to sit, but put up with it. Howeevr w

[Ram59]

The only argument that I can see against safe standing as used in Germany, is that it would be more difficult to trace trouble makers who have caused problems inside the ground.

The existing arrangement has so many flaws, when everyone stands up shorter people can't see and can't move to a better place. You don't get seats either close to or away from the noisy element, which ever your preference. You can't have your mates decide to join you at the last minute.

The most serious negative is that sooner or later, there is going to be a serious incident whereby those at the back are going to fall forward enmass and there will be a giant domino effect resulting in many injuries and/or deaths. With the seat back in front of you, you can't stop yourself falling forward if you're given a good shove from behind.

Let's hope that someone sees sense, before another disaster.

[roger_ramjet]

If safe standing means I can escape from that **** with the drum, it has my unequivocal support!

[Rattea]

The only thing I'll ask, is why is football different to any other event? I'm sure most people know what it's like to attend a packed concert, I don't see the difference.

In response, 'it just is'. or was. I don't know how old you are but you may not have experienced two hours in a 'Kop'. I could go to a packed Kings Hall for a gig with my gf in the 70s no problem but wouldn't dream of taking her into the Pop Side.[/quote]

That's a good point. Anag how old are you?

I find it interesting that you have people like flagman banging on about standing and terracing but he's hardly old enough to remember the real heady days of all this. I'm not really old enough! But I've witnessed it in other countries.

Did you know in places like Argentina, Brazil etc they have massive terraces in which they sway, jump and down, sing and bring out massive flags ..... With no crush barriers yet

[AnagRam]

How old am I? How rude ;-)
Old enough to have stood at the front of the terraces (not at the BBG) in the early mid sixties and attend festivals and 'gigs' all over the place, including the Kings Hall, since 1970.
I agree about the 'bloody idiots' bit but, in view of all that's happened, standing won't return without the necessary barriers and rightly so.