I like Nicola

[islaydarkblue]

What measurement would you be using here to declare Scotland bankrupt?

Japan for example has national borrowing at 225% of GDP, but manages the payments therefore not unable to pay it's debts - in my view not bankrupt.

UK is at about 85% right now and less than most of mainland Europe except Germany i think.

Norway and UK immigration levels are about the same at circa 15%of the population. And with regard to taxes, as a percentage Norway are slightly less than Scotland but that leaves disposable income much higher as their wages are considerably more than here.

An independent Scotland would no longer receive its annual handout from Westminster under the rules of the ‘outdated’ Barnett Formula which this year was £32.5 Billion. The numerous financial companies who are mostly based in Edinburgh would move their offices to England to avoid being taxed to the hilt by a left wing Labour Scottish Government. There would be no Scottish National Party as they had achieved their aim and the bulk of their supporters would be back voting for the Labour Party in Scotland.
Despite receiving £32.5 Billion from Westminster the current left wing SNP controlled Scottish Government have ensured that anyone earning over £26,500 per year in Scotland pays more tax than a person in the rest of the UK earning over £26,500.
You fail to mention the expensive cost of alcohol in Norway which is far higher than Scotland even with the daft minimum pricing rules for alcohol.
How would you replace the £32.5 Billion from the Barnett Formula.
It will not be from the duty from whisky when it comes out of bond as most of the whisky companies either have their head office in England (Diageo who own 28 whisky distilleries have their head office in London) or are foreign owned. For obvious reasons tho is now one of my specialist subjects.
Numerous Islay residents complain about the amount of whisky duty that leaves Islay and goes to the UK Treasury.
This is another Islay myth.
Most of the whisky produced on Islay is transported by road tankers to large warehouses in Central Scotland particularly in the Alloa area.
Last week I spoke to a retired customs and excise officer who had previously been based at Islay distillery. He confirmed that very little whisky came out of bonded warehouses on Islay as most of the whisky is transported to the mainland as soon as it is produced.
There are still warehouses in Islay but nowhere near enough to store all the whisky from the nine whisky distilleries on the island which were in full production prior to the start of the lockdown.

[BCram]

I would be surprised if the SNP did not remain the largest party in Holyrood should the people of Scotland vote for independence. The ANC is still the force in SAfrica, Mugabe's party ran Zimbabwe for decades and I honestly can't think of a single country that changed their political leaders who "won" them independence.
As hmac says if the Scottish government could pay the borrowing costs Scotland would not go bankrupt. However the similar personal tax rates between Norway and Scotland show the importance of having a high wage and productive economy. We don't have that and we don't have a wealth fund like Norway's. It was a deliberate decision by the Westminster parliament of the time to suppress the report that showed just how much wealth would be generated by the oil fields in Scotish waters. The reasoning was because those funds would have transformed the economic prospects of Scotland at a time when Gordon Wilsn was the leader and the slogan was its Scotland's Oil. Those days are gone now, and in the past they must remain, to coin a phrase, but it is interesting to look at three small Scandinavian countries all with very similar populations to Scotland. Denmark, Norway and Finland. I think the opposition parties to the SNP in Holyrood should encourage comparisons with these countries and see how Scotland fares in these comparisons. If Policies could be developed to deliver outcomes that are deemed the equivalent outcomes achieved these countries we might be able to have a worthwhile Scottish society that was self confident and did not need or more hopefully want, to play the "held back by Westminster" card. We could be a part of Britain and be happy with ourselves.

[Returnofrros]

I would be surprised if the SNP did not remain the largest party in Holyrood should the people of Scotland vote for independence. The ANC is still the force in SAfrica, Mugabe's party ran Zimbabwe for decades and I honestly can't think of a single country that changed their political leaders who "won" them independence.
As hmac says if the Scottish government could pay the borrowing costs Scotland would not go bankrupt. However the similar personal tax rates between Norway and Scotland show the importance of having a high wage and productive economy. We don't have that and we don't have a wealth fund like Norway's. It was a deliberate decision by the Westminster parliament of the time to suppress the report that showed just how much wealth would be generated by the oil fields in Scotish waters. The reasoning was because those funds would have transformed the economic prospects of Scotland at a time when Gordon Wilsn was the leader and the slogan was its Scotland's Oil. Those days are gone now, and in the past they must remain, to coin a phrase, but it is interesting to look at three small Scandinavian countries all with very similar populations to Scotland. Denmark, Norway and Finland. I think the opposition parties to the SNP in Holyrood should encourage comparisons with these countries and see how Scotland fares in these comparisons. If Policies could be developed to deliver outcomes that are deemed the equivalent outcomes achieved these countries we might be able to have a worthwhile Scottish society that was self confident and did not need or more hopefully want, to play the "held back by Westminster" card. We could be a part of Britain and be happy with ourselves.

I don't want to live in a very left wing country.

No.

[BCram]

Neither do I. My opinion of these countries is based on about 10 business trips, and one epic rugby tour to Copenhagen. I don't think they are very left wing countries. The people I met all seemed to be committed capitalists and the only difference seemed to be that everyone seemed to be on the same side. That's not really a good way of expressing it. It was more like everyone had the same work ethic and there just didn't seem to be any "sides". I think that concept produced a lot more effort from everyone. Facilities for staff were the same for everyone, no directors can**** etc.

Seems to me we have a concept for businesses in this country where bosses and labour are often trying to achieve different things. If they could just sit on the same side of the table and look at the problem, opportunity whatever, together they could do better for everyone involved. Our politics copies that model. Broadly the short hand comes across to me as bosses are right wing, workers are left wing. I think that the Scottish opposition parties could provide a better level of debate if they tried comparing the amounts spent on certain services in this country with the amounts spent by the Danes, Norwegians and Finns. Never mind how it is raised, examine how much is spent. Compare energy costs, building standards, insulation, stuff like that and see how we compare.

I think we would all rather live in a prosperous Scotland and I don't see how that will be achieved by Independence.

[islaydarkblue]

Neither do I. My opinion of these countries is based on about 10 business trips, and one epic rugby tour to Copenhagen. I don't think they are very left wing countries. The people I met all seemed to be committed capitalists and the only difference seemed to be that everyone seemed to be on the same side. That's not really a good way of expressing it. It was more like everyone had the same work ethic and there just didn't seem to be any "sides". I think that concept produced a lot more effort from everyone. Facilities for staff were the same for everyone, no directors can**** etc.

Seems to me we have a concept for businesses in this country where bosses and labour are often trying to achieve different things. If they could just sit on the same side of the table and look at the problem, opportunity whatever, together they could do better for everyone involved. Our politics copies that model. Broadly the short hand comes across to me as bosses are right wing, workers are left wing. I think that the Scottish opposition parties could provide a better level of debate if they tried comparing the amounts spent on certain services in this country with the amounts spent by the Danes, Norwegians and Finns. Never mind how it is raised, examine how much is spent. Compare energy costs, building standards, insulation, stuff like that and see how we compare.

I think we would all rather live in a prosperous Scotland and I don't see how that will be achieved by Independence.

The cost of electricity in an independent Scotland would greatly increase in price as people throughout the UK are paying for these wind turbines throughout Scotland which to date have not resulted in a single power station being permanently closed down.
At present the SNP will probably remain in power as the anti independence parties all enter their own candidates which splits the vote.
However there is a simple way to defeat the SNP at the Scottish Government elections. All the anti independence parties must elect a single candidate to go ‘head to head’ with the SNP candidate. The anti Independence Party which came second to the SNP in the previous Scottish Government election in May 2016 should be permitted to put their candidate up against the SNP candidate in each constituency. If the
Labour candidate was in second place then all anti independence supporters would vote for the Labour Party candidate.
Where an anti Independence Party won the seat in the 2016 Scottish Government election their candidate should still be the only candidate to go ‘head to head’ with the SNP candidate.
The Greens are not worth bothering about as they only put up list candidates to ensure that they get some elected.
It is now time for the anti independence parties to stand up and be counted.

[BCram]

Islay, the only way that independence will happen is if the Scottish people vote for it in an independence vote. I think we need a better way of campaigning for better policies and actions to be taken by the Holyrood parliament. Party politics is just a game, we need some serious bench marking to hold all our politicians to account, IMO.

[Returnofrros]

Islay, the only way that independence will happen is if the Scottish people vote for it in an independence vote. I think we need a better way of campaigning for better policies and actions to be taken by the Holyrood parliament. Party politics is just a game, we need some serious bench marking to hold all our politicians to account, IMO.

Is it a two leg affair? Does independence have to achieve 56%, is there a decider if it's one all or possibly women's votes count double, anybody over state pension age dosent count.....who knows.

[islaydarkblue]

Is it a two leg affair? Does independence have to achieve 56%, is there a decider if it's one all or possibly women's votes count double, anybody over state pension age dosent count.....who knows.

If the SNP controlled Scottish Government run true to form they would hide all the NO votes to ensure that the pro independence vote won.

[islaydarkblue]

Islay, the only way that independence will happen is if the Scottish people vote for it in an independence vote. I think we need a better way of campaigning for better policies and actions to be taken by the Holyrood parliament. Party politics is just a game, we need some serious bench marking to hold all our politicians to account, IMO.

BCram,
Sadly people throughout Scotland are likely to be brainwashed into thinking that everything would be wonderful in an independent Scotland as a result of the pro independence politicians and prominent supporters telling a pack of lies.
Last January 2020 I sent my MSP Michael Russell an email headed ‘How long is a generation’ Michael Russell replied that there is no legal definition of what length of time a generation is. Michael Russell further added that in his opinion a generation could be as little as Four years!
There was other stuff in the emails between us which I have kept for posterity and future use.
I sent him two emails but he did not reply to my second email.
Shortly after our exchange of emails ended Michael Russell announced that he would be not be standing for re election as the SNP MSP for the Argyll and Bute constituency in May 2021. Political commentators at the time were surprised that Michael Russell made his announcement almost 15 months before the 2021 Scottish Government elections and he was a ‘dead man walking’.
Perhaps his was afraid of getting more emails from Islaydarkblue!

[hmac]

Scotland currently runs at a deficit c13bn/year, no central bank, no currency and from what we know from the referendum no clue about how to fix it. Then we have pensions and a low tax paying base.

This current crisis would’ve royally phucked us.

This is a deficit taking all the bad and none of the good. Fact is both sides claim different things, but it’s fast getting to the point where the status quo needs to be challenged.
Ruled by London tories - no thanks