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Thread: EM derby musings

  1. #1
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    EM derby musings

    Let's get the stats out of the way first. They had 59% of the possession, we both had 12 shots and they had 5 on target to our 4.

    At half time I thought we were deserving of our lead as we had done more with the possession we had than they did with their share. I also felt they had resorted to fouling as their major tactic to stop us and they conceded 18 to our 8 over the 90 minutes.

    What a goal it was from Waggy to give us the lead. As he shaped up to take it I remarked that their keeper was too far left and was inviting Waggy to go for the top right corner. As the ball was about to be struck he moved to his left, Waggy's right, in anticipation of is little ruse working. Waggy smashed it to where he had been before he moved. The bluff backfired.

    After half time there was a period of 20 to 25 minutes where they made life difficult for us and it was all down, IMO, to Knockaert, who is still a very good player. On 64 minutes they had the ball in our net..... it should have been ruled out for the 2 handed pull on Davies' shirt that prevented him from jumping for the ball. It was that which allowed the ball to get through to Yates to knock down for Taylor to prod home. VAR would have ruled it out for the pull. I also think that Taylor's left foot and left shoulder might have been offside at the point Yates nodded it down but by then the not given foul had already occurred. Not a goal IMO.

    After that we picked up and they no longer ran the show as they had done so far in that half. Then there was our disallowed goal. Correct decision IMO. Waggy's presence in the position he was in was forcing the keeper to take account of him and that is why he was deemed to be interfering with play.

    Had the ref got that one decision right and disallowed their effort, it may well have stayed 0-1. Not unhappy with a draw away but 0-1 would have seen me ecstatic all weekend.

    Based on this performance, Bielik, Ibe and Rooney all have a long wait to get back in the side ahead of them. Whose place would you give Rooney? Not Shinnie or Knight on that form. Not Waggy on that performance. Based on that 1-3-4-3 formation there is no other place that would suit Rooney as he doesn't have the energy of the other 3. Playing him in any of those positions would reduce the team's synergy.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    Let's get the stats out of the way first. They had 59% of the possession, we both had 12 shots and they had 5 on target to our 4.

    At half time I thought we were deserving of our lead as we had done more with the possession we had than they did with their share. I also felt they had resorted to fouling as their major tactic to stop us and they conceded 18 to our 8 over the 90 minutes.

    What a goal it was from Waggy to give us the lead. As he shaped up to take it I remarked that their keeper was too far left and was inviting Waggy to go for the top right corner. As the ball was about to be struck he moved to his left, Waggy's right, in anticipation of is little ruse working. Waggy smashed it to where he had been before he moved. The bluff backfired.

    After half time there was a period of 20 to 25 minutes where they made life difficult for us and it was all down, IMO, to Knockaert, who is still a very good player. On 64 minutes they had the ball in our net..... it should have been ruled out for the 2 handed pull on Davies' shirt that prevented him from jumping for the ball. It was that which allowed the ball to get through to Yates to knock down for Taylor to prod home. VAR would have ruled it out for the pull. I also think that Taylor's left foot and left shoulder might have been offside at the point Yates nodded it down but by then the not given foul had already occurred. Not a goal IMO.

    After that we picked up and they no longer ran the show as they had done so far in that half. Then there was our disallowed goal. Correct decision IMO. Waggy's presence in the position he was in was forcing the keeper to take account of him and that is why he was deemed to be interfering with play.

    Had the ref got that one decision right and disallowed their effort, it may well have stayed 0-1. Not unhappy with a draw away but 0-1 would have seen me ecstatic all weekend.

    Based on this performance, Bielik, Ibe and Rooney all have a long wait to get back in the side ahead of them. Whose place would you give Rooney? Not Shinnie or Knight on that form. Not Waggy on that performance. Based on that 1-3-4-3 formation there is no other place that would suit Rooney as he doesn't have the energy of the other 3. Playing him in any of those positions would reduce the team's synergy.
    Good assessment, drastic improvement all round, I want Shinnie and Knight at that level of intensity and more every game

  3. #3
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    That 18-8 foul stat says a lot MA.
    I was puzzled at that from a Hughton side...the repeated eyes wide ‘who me?’ attitude from a number of Forest players after they’d arrived late to crash into players of ‘lesser stature’ - Byrne, Knight and Holmes - was surprising to me and nearly proved their undoing.

    Being as objective as I possibly can be, we were unlucky. Teams don’t usually start throwing their weight about these days unless they feel threatened.
    Shinnie should have made it 2-0 before half time but that was about all he did wrong and, as you say, there was at least as much reason to disallow their equaliser as there was our ‘winner’.

    On the back of that poor second half performance at Huddersfield I was impressed. Lots of things had been put right and we didn’t look like a side bereft of confidence or direction...or one that was fed up of the management.

    Ultimately what saved Forest was their ability to bring on some ‘star quality’ - at Championship level - in Knockaert. He changed the tone of the game and I couldn’t help but feel ‘here we go again’ after they scored, but we stuck at it, every one in that side stood up to be counted and had we got three points last night - and five rather than one from the last three games - it would probably be a fairer reflection.

    A little bit of luck against Cardiff next week and who knows, we might get that elusive win.
    Last edited by ramAnag; 24-10-2020 at 09:23 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAmster View Post
    Let's get the stats out of the way first. They had 59% of the possession, we both had 12 shots and they had 5 on target to our 4.

    At half time I thought we were deserving of our lead as we had done more with the possession we had than they did with their share. I also felt they had resorted to fouling as their major tactic to stop us and they conceded 18 to our 8 over the 90 minutes.

    What a goal it was from Waggy to give us the lead. As he shaped up to take it I remarked that their keeper was too far left and was inviting Waggy to go for the top right corner. As the ball was about to be struck he moved to his left, Waggy's right, in anticipation of is little ruse working. Waggy smashed it to where he had been before he moved. The bluff backfired.

    After half time there was a period of 20 to 25 minutes where they made life difficult for us and it was all down, IMO, to Knockaert, who is still a very good player. On 64 minutes they had the ball in our net..... it should have been ruled out for the 2 handed pull on Davies' shirt that prevented him from jumping for the ball. It was that which allowed the ball to get through to Yates to knock down for Taylor to prod home. VAR would have ruled it out for the pull. I also think that Taylor's left foot and left shoulder might have been offside at the point Yates nodded it down but by then the not given foul had already occurred. Not a goal IMO.

    After that we picked up and they no longer ran the show as they had done so far in that half. Then there was our disallowed goal. Correct decision IMO. Waggy's presence in the position he was in was forcing the keeper to take account of him and that is why he was deemed to be interfering with play.

    Had the ref got that one decision right and disallowed their effort, it may well have stayed 0-1. Not unhappy with a draw away but 0-1 would have seen me ecstatic all weekend.

    Based on this performance, Bielik, Ibe and Rooney all have a long wait to get back in the side ahead of them. Whose place would you give Rooney? Not Shinnie or Knight on that form. Not Waggy on that performance. Based on that 1-3-4-3 formation there is no other place that would suit Rooney as he doesn't have the energy of the other 3. Playing him in any of those positions would reduce the team's synergy.
    MA very good assessment The reff was perfectly placed to see the assault on Davies he almost lost his shirt . The goal was always going to be ruled out Waggy definitely in the keeper s eyeline . Much better performance by everyone Thought Lawrence looked like the player we know he can be he also played well at Huddersfield . Back three look good ,for Knight playing centrally where he's at his best . Buchanan coming along nicely he's very good at heading when defending corners , he used to centre back for the U23s quite a bit . Wonder what Adi will say about the useless Shinnie the Scottish second division player . He had a cracking game .

  5. #5
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    Agreed with everything, they all put a shift in but my one criticism would be Lawrence always running into a cluster of 3 or 4 players hoping to come out the other side with the ball, it rarely happened actually it never happened

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by StensonRam View Post
    Agreed with everything, they all put a shift in but my one criticism would be Lawrence always running into a cluster of 3 or 4 players hoping to come out the other side with the ball, it rarely happened actually it never happened
    He did once for the disallowed goal I've just watched it back ,he beats three and last it off for Joviac to score

  7. #7
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    The most pleasing aspect of the game for me was, after the equaliser and forest being well on top, rather than lay down and lose the game, we regained control and deserved a victory.

    It does show that with the right players available, we can play a decent standard of football. Cocu should be given the opportunity to field his chosen fully fit 11, before being sacked. Remember Lawrence and Waghorn only returned to training with the first team 9 days ago.

    As mista pointed out, Buchanan adds more aerial strength to dead ball situations which is unusual for a left wing back.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram59 View Post
    The most pleasing aspect of the game for me was, after the equaliser and forest being well on top, rather than lay down and lose the game, we regained control and deserved a victory.

    It does show that with the right players available, we can play a decent standard of football. Cocu should be given the opportunity to field his chosen fully fit 11, before being sacked. Remember Lawrence and Waghorn only returned to training with the first team 9 days ago.

    As mista pointed out, Buchanan adds more aerial strength to dead ball situations which is unusual for a left wing back.
    After the dross served out for the first half dozen games. We finally have a glimmer of hope. I feel too much lost ground for a promotion season, but I would like to see us push into half way
    with Beliek in midfield and a fit Ibe surely we should be a bigger threat, ]unless Rooney and Evans comes straight back in when available
    [/I]

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddy779h34 View Post
    After the dross served out for the first half dozen games. We finally have a glimmer of hope. I feel too much lost ground for a promotion season, but I would like to see us push into half way
    with Beliek in midfield and a fit Ibe surely we should be a bigger threat, ]unless Rooney and Evans comes straight back in when available
    [/I]
    Think you’re being unnecessarily harsh on Rooney, eddy.
    I’ve never rated Evans, but Rooney has only been here for ten months and he undoubtedly improved us last season.
    He’s 35 now, today as it happens, and has the sort of body shape and probably genetics that are going to make it hard for him to stay in any sort of shape when he finishes playing, but, imo, he still has something to offer.
    After lockdown I’ll concede he seemed to have swapped fitness for weight and he can probably be criticised for that, but he’s been asked to play all sorts of roles, one of which he’s no longer suited to, and I think he can still provide us with something in terms of know how, leadership and set pieces, though possibly largely from off the bench.
    I also seem to remember Max Bird improving massively once Rooney arrived last January...it may not be coincidence that Bird’s form has collapsed correspondingly this season.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Think youíre being unnecessarily harsh on Rooney, eddy.
    Iíve never rated Evans, but Rooney has only been here for ten months and he undoubtedly improved us last season.
    Heís 35 now, today as it happens, and has the sort of body shape and probably genetics that are going to make it hard for him to stay in any sort of shape when he finishes playing, but, imo, he still has something to offer.
    After lockdown Iíll concede he seemed to have swapped fitness for weight and he can probably be criticised for that, but heís been asked to play all sorts of roles, one of which heís no longer suited to, and I think he can still provide us with something in terms of know how, leadership and set pieces, though possibly largely from off the bench.
    I also seem to remember Max Bird improving massively once Rooney arrived last January...it may not be coincidence that Birdís form has collapsed correspondingly this season.
    RA your right about Bird he improved when Rooney arrived , In fact towards the end of last season he was first name on the team sheet , He was our best player and fans talking about selling him to Chelsea for £20million . I'm not worried about him he's just a youngster going through a bad patch He's very skilfull with a great football brain . Just hope he doesn't become the boo boy our fans struggle for one when Evans isn't in the team
    Last edited by mistaram; 24-10-2020 at 06:12 PM.

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