2nd homes in Wales

[soulman101]

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/wa...155356545.html

[mickd1961]

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/wa...155356545.html

Unfortunately I’m caught up in this situation in Tenby.

We were already paying around £3300 per annum in Council Tax but for us now it ls around £10k per annum due to the additional 200% levy placed by the Local Council.

So we applied (like a lot of owners) to go onto Small Business Rates which on a property of our sort works out at zero money to be paid as long as you offer the property for holiday rental for 182 nights per year and achieve 72 nights of lettings which we do.

So they changed the rules yet again so that you had to have your place available for letting 252 nights per year and that you achieve at least 182 nights of lettings each year.

Even for a front line, right by the beach property like ours this is a tough ask due to UK weather and cost of living crisis.

So, last year we failed, we only rented out for 144 nights, this means I now have to revert back to Council Tax for this present year AND pay Council Tax for last year.

My bill from the Ratings Agency is going to be circa £20k which is a real kick in the nuts and I’ll have to wait until next April to apply to return to Business Rates once again.

In future I’ll ensure I always hit the 182 nights of lettings even if I rent out the nights I need at £10 a night!

The Council recently sent out a questionnaire to all second home owners to get their opinion.

I pointed out that I was so p I s s e d off that I’ll probably take my place off the rental market which will reduce the number of available “front line” property bedrooms by 730 per year and potentially cost them at least 600 guests per year.

All of these guests pay for car parks and spend money in local shops and businesses etc.

The 200% levy is typical “politics of envy” by Labour, they are so small minded, they think that “locals” will suddenly get the chance to buy these properties as people like me bail out but they won’t.

What’ll happen is that even more wealthy people will snap them up and not even bother to rent out as they don’t need the income.

Instead of crucifying owners in the way they have the answer was actually very simple, their should be a small holiday tax levied against each booking that owners can allow for in the nightly rate charged.

Shortly I’ll be putting our place up for sale as this allows us a 12 month period with no Rates to pay, how stupid is that by the Local Council?

These people couldn’t run a bath, it would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic and ill thought out.

[baggieal]

Unfortunately I’m caught up in this situation in Tenby.

We were already paying around £3300 per annum in Council Tax but for us now it ls around £10k per annum due to the additional 200% levy placed by the Local Council.

So we applied (like a lot of owners) to go onto Small Business Rates which on a property of our sort works out at zero money to be paid as long as you offer the property for holiday rental for 182 nights per year and achieve 72 nights of lettings which we do.

So they changed the rules yet again so that you had to have your place available for letting 252 nights per year and that you achieve at least 182 nights of lettings each year.

Even for a front line, right by the beach property like ours this is a tough ask due to UK weather and cost of living crisis.

So, last year we failed, we only rented out for 144 nights, this means I now have to revert back to Council Tax for this present year AND pay Council Tax for last year.

My bill from the Ratings Agency is going to be circa £20k which is a real kick in the nuts and I’ll have to wait until next April to apply to return to Business Rates once again.

In future I’ll ensure I always hit the 182 nights of lettings even if I rent out the nights I need at £10 a night!

The Council recently sent out a questionnaire to all second home owners to get their opinion.

I pointed out that I was so p I s s e d off that I’ll probably take my place off the rental market which will reduce the number of available “front line” property bedrooms by 730 per year and potentially cost them at least 600 guests per year.

All of these guests pay for car parks and spend money in local shops and businesses etc.

The 200% levy is typical “politics of envy” by Labour, they are so small minded, they think that “locals” will suddenly get the chance to buy these properties as people like me bail out but they won’t.

What’ll happen is that even more wealthy people will snap them up and not even bother to rent out as they don’t need the income.

Instead of crucifying owners in the way they have the answer was actually very simple, their should be a small holiday tax levied against each booking that owners can allow for in the nightly rate charged.

Shortly I’ll be putting our place up for sale as this allows us a 12 month period with no Rates to pay, how stupid is that by the Local Council?

These people couldn’t run a bath, it would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic and ill thought out.

What's the availability for £10 a night and what dates?

[mickd1961]

What's the availability for £10 a night and what dates?

It’ll be in January once I know how many nights I need to “fill” to get me to the 182 nights.

Possibly rented out to people who find that for whatever reason they’re not able to actually make it to Wales that week!

I’ve always played fair up until now but the Local Council are now acting like such tw ats that it’s time to play them at their own game.

[Albionic68]

It’ll be in January once I know how many nights I need to “fill” to get me to the 182 nights.

Possibly rented out to people who find that for whatever reason they’re not able to actually make it to Wales that week!

I’ve always played fair up until now but the Local Council are now acting like such tw ats that it’s time to play them at their own game.

You can book me in for the whole of January now if you like Mick. It'll only cost you £310 but saves you thousands overall. And I won't even go 😉 .

[Omegstrat6]

The crux of the matter, whether in Wales or any location in England that attracts holiday makers is the shortage of affordable homes for local people who wish to remain and work in the area.

Of course, simply because such areas attract tourists means that this in itself creates business opportunities there whether that is restaurants, pubs and entertainment venues or hotels and holiday lets to accommodate them. Locals may occasionally moan about the increased number of these if they encroach on the "natural beauty" of the place but nowhere near as much as they do about second homes or holiday rental properties which are particularly singled out.

On one hand, of course, these are businesses like any other but they are also different to others simply because they are properties being used to house guests but which also stand empty for not insignificant periods at a time when there is an acute shortage of available or affordable housing for locals. Small wonder that they can lead to resentment.

Many argue that such holiday lets bring in trade to the area but that is not true in all cases. In my own village, for example, there are an increasing number of holiday lets but the village itself boasts only a small shop, post office, fish & chip shop and one pub. Certainly the holiday makers use them but their customers are overwhelmingly the villagers themselves. The holiday makers tend to use the village as a base and spend most of their money elsewhere. As for the rentals themselves, only a comparative few are owned by people living in the area so profits from the rentals goes outside the region.

I am very fortunate to live where I do and am certainly not like some villagers (ironically not originally from the region!) who moan about the tourists and I understand that everyone wants to go on holiday or visit places like this so I only get annoyed with disrespectful behaviour but I do understand the frustration with increasing numbers of holiday rentals in areas like mine. Aside from the fact that there are virtually no affordable houses for locals, out of season these properties stand empty and this then impacts on the "feel" of the village community because there are fewer residents.

Having said all this, however, from what Mick has posted, the attitude of the Welsh government towards the owners of such holiday lets seems not only grossly unfair but also a very short sighted and ill thought out policy. The solution is surely to both put a cap on the percentage number of properties allowed as holiday rentals or second homes in an area whilst building more local affordable or social housing. Punishing the owners of holiday lets as they are in Wales is certainly not the solution and smacks of the "envy" that Mick speaks of.

The aristocracy and wealthy have always had their places in London as well as their "country retreats" and this has carried on in areas such as North Norfolk (aka "Chelsea on sea") and the gap between rich and poor is a fact of life but that should surely not mean that the country should not strive for better fairness and equality and housing is a big part of this.

I have no beef with anyone who has the money to spend it on whatever they want but if it is a better private education for their children for example, then I believe that there should be a decent level of state education and if it is a second home or holiday rental that this doesn't impact on the ability of locals to get housing.

[mickd1961]

The crux of the matter, whether in Wales or any location in England that attracts holiday makers is the shortage of affordable homes for local people who wish to remain and work in the area.

Of course, simply because such areas attract tourists means that this in itself creates business opportunities there whether that is restaurants, pubs and entertainment venues or hotels and holiday lets to accommodate them. Locals may occasionally moan about the increased number of these if they encroach on the "natural beauty" of the place but nowhere near as much as they do about second homes or holiday rental properties which are particularly singled out.

On one hand, of course, these are businesses like any other but they are also different to others simply because they are properties being used to house guests but which also stand empty for not insignificant periods at a time when there is an acute shortage of available or affordable housing for locals. Small wonder that they can lead to resentment.

Many argue that such holiday lets bring in trade to the area but that is not true in all cases. In my own village, for example, there are an increasing number of holiday lets but the village itself boasts only a small shop, post office, fish & chip shop and one pub. Certainly the holiday makers use them but their customers are overwhelmingly the villagers themselves. The holiday makers tend to use the village as a base and spend most of their money elsewhere. As for the rentals themselves, only a comparative few are owned by people living in the area so profits from the rentals goes outside the region.

I am very fortunate to live where I do and am certainly not like some villagers (ironically not originally from the region!) who moan about the tourists and I understand that everyone wants to go on holiday or visit places like this so I only get annoyed with disrespectful behaviour but I do understand the frustration with increasing numbers of holiday rentals in areas like mine. Aside from the fact that there are virtually no affordable houses for locals, out of season these properties stand empty and this then impacts on the "feel" of the village community because there are fewer residents.

Having said all this, however, from what Mick has posted, the attitude of the Welsh government towards the owners of such holiday lets seems not only grossly unfair but also a very short sighted and ill thought out policy. The solution is surely to both put a cap on the percentage number of properties allowed as holiday rentals or second homes in an area whilst building more local affordable or social housing. Punishing the owners of holiday lets as they are in Wales is certainly not the solution and smacks of the "envy" that Mick speaks of.

The aristocracy and wealthy have always had their places in London as well as their "country retreats" and this has carried on in areas such as North Norfolk (aka "Chelsea on sea") and the gap between rich and poor is a fact of life but that should surely not mean that the country should not strive for better fairness and equality and housing is a big part of this.

I have no beef with anyone who has the money to spend it on whatever they want but if it is a better private education for their children for example, then I believe that there should be a decent level of state education and if it is a second home or holiday rental that this doesn't impact on the ability of locals to get housing.

A very well constructed piece Omeg.

One important thing that gets neglected in these attacks on holiday makers by both Local Council zealots and resentful locals is that initially, a local person or family was happy to take the highest bid for their property from an “outsider”, strange that is isn’t it!

Not overly bothered about their own children or the other locals when it came to the hard cash on offer!

I know a few local restaurant owners, they worry greatly because they reckon that the locals hardly ever use them or the cafes and that retail etc will virtually die in the towns if us private landlords get driven away.

Many councillors are too young to remember the 70’s and 80’s in places like Saundersfoot, I used to have to visit their to work and for holidays in the 80’s and 90’s, quite often out of season.

You could walk through the town on an evening from October onwards and not see a living soul, that’s no longer the case, towns like this thrive in winter now.

The quality of everything including building, retail, eating and the remaining hotels is many times better than it was in that era.

The other thing that’s missed in conversation is that a huge number of old hotels no longer exist, in the main they were converted into apartments because in the main, people prefer their own space nowadays rather than a dingy hotel room and an instruction to be back before 10.30pm “or else” as was the way in those days.

The genie isn’t going back into the bottle!

To your point about local housing Omeg.

It was pointed out by a local opposition councillor in Tenby that Pembrokeshire County Council have only built 20 to 30 new Council Houses in the past 25 years.

You tell me who’s responsible for this scandalous decision?

I bought my apartment from a Welsh bloke whose second home it had been, he then bought another house in Tenby instead to replace it!

The building itself was a former hotel that had been purchased and developed by a well known local man called Bill James who owns the Atlantic Hotel 100 yards from our building.

My wife and I know Bill, he was quite happy to wipe out a competing sea front hotel of poor quantity and sell the apartments to non locals such as us for substantial amounts of money in 2005.

This “problem” has been facilitated by the very people who live and own in these coastal towns.

Part of the answer is as you suggest, to limit the number of properties allowed for second homes.

This would be especially helpful to us owners as it would drive up our selling values due to limited stock.

Which would then cause further resentment with little Welsh locals no doubt.

I have zero sympathy, they’ve created their own monster.

[Omegstrat6]

Agree with a lot of what you have said and your closing comment especially. It is a myth that "wealthy outsiders" are all to blame.

I'm willing to bet that in most seaside resorts, for example, that there are a handful of local families who own the majority of tourist related businesses and they certainly seem to put their own interests above that of the local community and, with undoubted influence on the local council, have quite a voice there too.

Similarly, it is local individuals who initially put their own self interests above community by making money selling properties to others to use as second homes or rental places. Can't blame them in one respect of course, but local councils enable this situation too. Capping the number of properties allowed as second homes or holiday lets whilst using the revenue from the council taxes and business rates to help build local affordable/social housing would seem an logical option but obviously not one they want to explore too deeply.

[baggieal]

It’ll be in January once I know how many nights I need to “fill” to get me to the 182 nights.

Possibly rented out to people who find that for whatever reason they’re not able to actually make it to Wales that week!

I’ve always played fair up until now but the Local Council are now acting like such tw ats that it’s time to play them at their own game.

F uck that! Tenby in January😂. I need to be in at least 25 degrees to be happy so might treat myself to a little break in Fuerteventura.

Your all be doomed in October when the budget comes out from the Tool Makers Son!

F ucking doomed!

[DaveP67 is back!]

Might be a daft question but how do they know you have rented the place out? And what’s to stop you renting it to ‘a family member’ for 6 months paying the money to them to pay you, yes you would lose a bit in tax but other than that it fixes the problem?