OT - Has anyone seen Nigel?

[ramAnag]

Well I cant contradict you with any evidence so Ill accept it with some incredulity. My impression is that nowadays you would be deemed guilty until proven innocent whereas in the 90's the invesre would still hold true. But thats generalised perspective.

My experience of the 1990s was in the lloyd's market where political correctness was up there with hens teeth. Towards the end of the decade there was a slow shift against the triple threats of racism, ***ism and feminism but those reforms, such as they were, were more often applied on a surface level only

I imagine the culture within schools would have been very different from that in the insurance/finance industry back then, so probably just very different environments and experiences.
Twenty years earlier, when I was completing my teaching practices, things were very different and much more conflicted as some seriously racist and ***ist headmasters (I use the word advisably) and senior staff found themselves on a collision course with the new cohort of graduate teachers.

[Andy_Faber]

I work in the insurance industry and Lloyd's syndicate were incredibly racist in their approach to business.

I can recall a visit from an account manager of a new syndicate we had agreed terms with and he sat there and said in hushed tones no *** heads. Ive not put the 1st word but im sure you know what it is.

It made me uncomfortable back then, can't even imagine hearing stuff like that today.

Then I suggest you steer clear of the building trade

[MadAmster]

I remember back in the days when I was giving courses on public speaking. One trick widely used if it seemed the audience was losing "concentration" was to fraise your voice for a syllable or a single word. It woke them up. Whilst teaching I used the tactic in a class with a single syllable word and continued in my usual voice. Got called into the Head of Middle School's office later. He'd walked past the classroom and heard my single syllable raised voice. Naughty teacher, you shouldn't raise your voice. I pointed out that it's a well known tactic in public speaking and that I'd given courses on it.... no matter, don't do it again. After that I had several runs in with the eejit as we viewed the world differently. I'd been giiving technical courses at work since the mid 70s, coached football and keepers for 20 odd years, had a business giving IT and Business English courses for over a decade, 12 years in schools and colleges. The HoMS had 2.5 years teaching experience before getting the management job. End of the school year, I took early retirement. Leavers always got a leaving do and a speech from their immediate supervisor. Mine was the aforementioned HoMS. The gaffer was aware of the conflict and asked me if I would be OK with he himself giving my leaving speech. I said I'd be ecstatic if he did. HoMS didn't even attend the do, much to my pleasure.

[Andy_Faber]

No, Andy, I don’t think I’m ‘blinkered’…I just hold a different view to you.
As far as I’m aware the telephone call from the murderer’s brother simply tells us that he was complicit in the whole horrible business and that certain individuals are likely to play the ‘race card’ on occasion, which should come as no great surprise. People, regardless of colour or creed, are capable of bad things. Bad people of very bad things.

My points remain.
1. There is very little to compare the murders of George Floyd and Henry Nowak (for the reasons I’ve given several times and hope to avoid having to make again).
2. I have yet to see any evidence which suggests that, on this occasion, the police action (inaction) was driven by anything other than confusion and incompetence. Perhaps I’m wrong and you have. If so please share it.
3. My personal opinion is that the likes of Nigel Farage and Elon Musk have acted abysmally. They have, imo, a racist agenda and have used this enormously sad incident to further their divisive campaigns.
4. The recent rioting in Southampton, just like the rioting in Southport nearly two years ago, was politically orchestrated and motivated. It achieved nothing other than untold damage and was just an excuse for some flag waving right wing thugs to further their campaign of division and hatred. If the rioters, along with Robinson, Farage and Musk had a fraction of the decency, integrity and genuine bravery displayed by Henry Nowak’s parents and the parents of the little girls in Southport then the world would be an infinitely better place.

Fair enough

1. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that and opinion is split in the country in general

2. It’s my opinion based on the same evidence as you have. I’ll respect the findings of the later inquiry

3. Musk has no business sticking his nose in. Farage, as I’ve mentioned, is echoing a large section of the population. How large we won’t know for a few years

4. The thugs on the ‘right’ and ‘left’ are equally culpable for unrest and it’s all politically orchestrated and motivated.

[ramAnag]

Fair enough

1. We?’ll have to agree to disagree on that and opinion is split in the country in general

2. It?’s my opinion based on the same evidence as you have. I?’ll respect the findings of the later inquiry

3. Musk has no business sticking his nose in. Farage, as I?’ve mentioned, is echoing a large section of the population. How large we won?’t know for a few years

4. The thugs on the ?‘right?’ and ?‘left?’ are equally culpable for unrest and it?’s all politically orchestrated and motivated.

1. Fair enough.
2. Ditto.
3. Agree about Musk. Farage…echoing or provoking?
4. Seriously disagree…anything that involves the likes of Tommy Robinson and the halfwitted Laurence Fox (Emilia must be so disappointed) at the moment tends to result in violence. I think the two most violent and destructive incidents to have taken place in the UK in the last couple of years have been in Southport and Southampton. I doubt there were any of what you describe as ‘left wing thugs’ involved in either.

[Andy_Faber]

4. Seriously disagree…anything that involves the likes of Tommy Robinson and the halfwitted Laurence Fox (Emilia must be so disappointed) at the moment tends to result in violence. I think the two most violent and destructive incidents to have taken place in the UK in the last couple of years have been in Southport and Southampton. I doubt there were any of what you describe as ‘left wing thugs’ involved in either.

I was really commenting in more general terms, I’m more focussed on the whole than the personalities in question which is how we respectively usually ‘roll’

[ramAnag]

I was really commenting in more general terms, I?’m more focussed on the whole than the personalities in question which is how we respectively usually ?‘roll?’

So was I. I simply mentioned two of the regular ringleaders, but my point is…politically orchestrated thuggery in the UK has been associated far more with the far right than the far left in recent times. Southport and Southampton being prime examples.

[Andy_Faber]

So was I. I simply mentioned two of the regular ringleaders, but my point is…politically orchestrated thuggery in the UK has been associated far more with the far right than the far left in recent times. Southport and Southampton being prime examples.

I don't recall any right wing destruction of ambulances or historical statues, defacing of monuments, cancelling of musicians, actors or comedians with different views - its all politically orchestrated, just varies in type

[SithHappens]

I don't know who the current left wing thugs are , I suppose Dianne Abbott falls into that category though her comments are more historical but not defensible.

[ramAnag]

I don't recall any right wing destruction of ambulances or historical statues, defacing of monuments, cancelling of musicians, actors or comedians with different views - its all politically orchestrated, just varies in type

I’m not sure how the destruction of ambulances was ‘left wing’. Stupid? Yes. Anti Semitic? Yes. Left wing? You’ll have to explain that one.
Six years since the statue of Edward Colston was toppled and I was speaking of ‘recent’ activities.
‘Cancelling’ of musicians, actors or comedians. Whether one agrees or not, you’re clutching at straws to put that in the category of violent thuggery.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m not sure how the destruction of ambulances was ‘left wing’. Stupid? Yes. Anti Semitic? Yes. Left wing? You’ll have to explain that one.
Six years since the statue of Edward Colston was toppled and I was speaking of ‘recent’ activities.
‘Cancelling’ of musicians, actors or comedians. Whether one agrees or not, you’re clutching at straws to put that in the category of violent thuggery.

I don’t consider spending a few minutes throwing a few bins at the police and depriving someone of their livelihood to be much different tbh, you’re thinking about a multi dimensional issue in one dimension I’m afraid

[swaledale]

I don’t consider spending a few minutes throwing a few bins at the police and depriving someone of their livelihood to be much different tbh, you’re thinking about a multi dimensional issue in one dimension I’m afraid

I'd genuinely like to know how you have to come to the conclusion that the destruction of ambulances was left wing thuggery????

Which incident are you describing as describing as depriving someone of their livelihood?


I'd also like to see your condemnation of Farage for making political capital and encouraging unrest out of the recent tragedy, expressly against the wishes of the vixtims parents.

[SithHappens]

One of the Pure Cold Rage responders

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgz2xq7ykvo

Just a thug using Nigels call to arms as an excuse for violence.

[MadAmster]

Chas Corrigan, a white man, has just been jailed for life with a minimum of 22.5 years for murdering a Saudi student, Mohammed Algasim, in Cambridge.

There was no uproar when it happened. No uproar when the sentence was handed down. Why is Farage and like minded politicians so quiet on this one? It's very likely the convicted man is a descendent of Irish immigrants or that he himeself was born there. Shouldn't these right wing politicians be complaining that this is yet another murder by (descendents of) immigrants?

[ramAnag]

I don?‚?’t consider spending a few minutes throwing a few bins at the police and depriving someone of their livelihood to be much different tbh, you?‚?’re thinking about a multi dimensional issue in one dimension I?‚?’m afraid

Really? I thought I was simply making the point that the far right is currently responsible for more violent disruption than their equivalent on the far left by citing examples. The fact that you keep changing tack and never answer the points raised would suggest I’m correct.

I also think that JD Vance’s comments and involvement this morning are entirely unhelpful and aimed at creating more disruption precisely at a time which might be helpful to Farage. Simple, straightforward question…what do you think?