OT - Has anyone seen Nigel?

[MadAmster]

the real victims (and I include the murderer's family in that categorisation) are being made victims all over again

GP, you do realise that the murderer's mother and brother have been found guilty, respectively. of removing the murder weapon from the scene and lying to the police about alleged racist comments by Henry Nowak. I would hope? There will, of course, be other family members who will be upset that he killed a man and/or got caught.

[Andy_Faber]

I don?’t believe there to be any meaningful comparison.

You're right - there are a number of areas where comparison highlights big differences. The young man was not a repeat criminal. He wasn't in the act of committing a crime at the time of the incident. moving on to the reaction, there was not a few political/influential voices expressing outrage there were many. the recent incident caused a few hundred troublemakers to spend an hour or so committing criminal damage on a street close to the incident. The earlier incident caused weeks of disturbances including arson, looting and significant property damage, even in LA where £millions of damage were caused. Time will tell if an organisation will later be set up for the UK incident which is widely held to be riddled with corruption to the tune of many £millions

Not offering an opinion, just putting some flesh on the bones of your comment

3mins

[ramAnag]

You're right - there are a number of areas where comparison highlights big differences. The young man was not a repeat criminal. He wasn't in the act of committing a crime at the time of the incident. moving on to the reaction, there was not a few political/influential voices expressing outrage there were many. the recent incident caused a few hundred troublemakers to spend an hour or so committing criminal damage on a street close to the incident. The earlier incident caused weeks of disturbances including arson, looting and significant property damage, even in LA where £millions of damage were caused. Time will tell if an organisation will later be set up for the UK incident which is widely held to be riddled with corruption to the tune of many £millions

Not offering an opinion, just putting some flesh on the bones of your comment

3mins

Sarcastic tone noted, but you’re right, this young man was not a repeat criminal, indeed he was not a criminal at all and he didn't appear to be doing anything wrong at all. Wrong place, wrong time appears to have been his only ‘mistake’.

Beyond that, the George Floyd incident was part of an infinitely bigger picture and, as I’ve said, involved a police officer actually committing murder over a nine minute period while others watched on. That is why I query the comparison. One involved murder by the police - and however disreputable Floyd may have been he didn’t deserve that - and the other involved the police making a mistake/being incompetent (we don’t know for sure yet).

I’m aware it suits the right wing narrative to blame woke/neo liberals/Labour/anti racism campaigners/lefties, or whatever label you/they wish to attach, and indulge in whataboutery in relation to George Floyd, but it doesn’t actually help or make any sense, imo.

[Andy_Faber]

the George Floyd incident was part of a bigger picture .

And if you don’t see that this latest incident is as well your blinkers must have blinkers on. The telephone call made by the brother demonstrates or at least suggests that there is awareness of a ‘dog whistle’in minority groups that conditions the police response.

[MadAmster]

And if you don?’t see that this latest incident is as well your blinkers must have blinkers on. The telephone call made by the brother demonstrates or at least suggests that there is awareness of a ?‘dog whistle?’in minority groups that conditions the police response.

I fear you are right there AF. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of police officers are **** scared of being accused of racism and act acordingly.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I fear you are right there AF. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of police officers are **** scared of being accused of racism and act acordingly.

Absolutely MA - a fear instilled by political correctness being drilled into them by HMG (in their role as employers, not as mouthpieces in parliament) and reinforced by the judiciary with their sometimes bizarre sentencing. I dont think its necessarily the fault of individual coppers (although in this case I will reserve judgement) but the police reactions and actions are now prioritised to cover their arses against contravention of the various "-isms" at the expense of proper policing / responses. A sad state of affairs which appears to have cost one person his life. How many more will it take before someone who matters "smells the coffee"

[Andy_Faber]

I fear you are right there AF. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of police officers are **** scared of being accused of racism and act acordingly.

Do you think that that extends to many more 'public servants'? and not just racism, other isms too. Its one of the things that forced my nurse friend back from UK to Ireland, and when Ireland proved not better, back to Spain

[ramAnag]

And if you don?‚?’t see that this latest incident is as well your blinkers must have blinkers on. The telephone call made by the brother demonstrates or at least suggests that there is awareness of a ?‚?‘dog whistle?‚?’in minority groups that conditions the police response.

No, Andy, I don’t think I’m ‘blinkered’…I just hold a different view to you.
As far as I’m aware the telephone call from the murderer’s brother simply tells us that he was complicit in the whole horrible business and that certain individuals are likely to play the ‘race card’ on occasion, which should come as no great surprise. People, regardless of colour or creed, are capable of bad things. Bad people of very bad things.

My points remain.
1. There is very little to compare the murders of George Floyd and Henry Nowak (for the reasons I’ve given several times and hope to avoid having to make again).
2. I have yet to see any evidence which suggests that, on this occasion, the police action (inaction) was driven by anything other than confusion and incompetence. Perhaps I’m wrong and you have. If so please share it.
3. My personal opinion is that the likes of Nigel Farage and Elon Musk have acted abysmally. They have, imo, a racist agenda and have used this enormously sad incident to further their divisive campaigns.
4. The recent rioting in Southampton, just like the rioting in Southport nearly two years ago, was politically orchestrated and motivated. It achieved nothing other than untold damage and was just an excuse for some flag waving right wing thugs to further their campaign of division and hatred. If the rioters, along with Robinson, Farage and Musk had a fraction of the decency, integrity and genuine bravery displayed by Henry Nowak’s parents and the parents of the little girls in Southport then the world would be an infinitely better place.

[MadAmster]

#4. 100% absolutely.

[ramAnag]

Do you think that that extends to many more 'public servants'? and not just racism, other isms too. Its one of the things that forced my nurse friend back from UK to Ireland, and when Ireland proved not better, back to Spain

I was accused of racism about thirty years ago and reported to the LEA by a social worker with an axe to grind. I’ll admit to being offended, but beyond that I really wasn’t worried. I’d spoken out in a case conference about the behaviour of a father who happened to be black. The social worker claimed it was a racist comment. I knew it wasn’t, made my case, which others in the meeting confirmed, and ultimately she had to apologise and retract.
If you’ve genuinely done nothing wrong you’ve little to worry about in my experience.

Coincidentally, I had an electrician round today about an intermittent electrical issue. During his investigations, every time he found something puzzling, he said, ‘that’s a bit Irish’. After about the fifth time it must have dawned on him what he’d been saying and he suddenly said, ‘oh God…you’re not Irish are you?’

[Geoff Parkstone]

I was accused of racism about thirty years ago and reported to the LEA by a social worker with an axe to grind. I?ll admit to being offended, but beyond that I really wasn?t worried. I?d spoken out in a case conference about the behaviour of a father who happened to be black. The social worker claimed it was a racist comment. I knew it wasn?t, made my case, which others in the meeting confirmed, and ultimately she had to apologise and retract.
If you?ve genuinely done nothing wrong you?ve little to worry about in my experience.

Coincidentally, I had an electrician round today about an intermittent electrical issue. During his investigations, every time he found something puzzling, he said, ?that?s a bit Irish?. After about the fifth time it must have dawned on him what he?d been saying and he suddenly said, ?oh God?you?re not Irish are you??

were you Irish for the devilment of it?

I think 30 years ago the "-ism attitude" was a lot less tyrannical than today. I wonder how the outcome of your experience would be today?

[ramAnag]

were you Irish for the devilment of it?

I think 30 years ago the "-ism attitude" was a lot less tyrannical than today. I wonder how the outcome of your experience would be today?

Of course! Got the VAT knocked off.

Not sure about that, GP. As I remember it, the mid nineties onwards were very PC. You could say things in terms of staff room banter that might be a bit iffy now but otherwise things were changing, for the better imo.
The comments I’d made were entirely behavioural and made as a result of things a pupil had confided in me. They had nothing whatsoever to do with the guys race/colour so I doubt it would have been any different now.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well I cant contradict you with any evidence so Ill accept it with some incredulity. My impression is that nowadays you would be deemed guilty until proven innocent whereas in the 90's the invesre would still hold true. But thats generalised perspective.

My experience of the 1990s was in the lloyd's market where political correctness was up there with hens teeth. Towards the end of the decade there was a slow shift against the triple threats of racism, ***ism and feminism but those reforms, such as they were, were more often applied on a surface level only

[SithHappens]

I work in the insurance industry and Lloyd's syndicate were incredibly racist in their approach to business.

I can recall a visit from an account manager of a new syndicate we had agreed terms with and he sat there and said in hushed tones no *** heads. Ive not put the 1st word but im sure you know what it is.

It made me uncomfortable back then, can't even imagine hearing stuff like that today.

[SithHappens]

I see Mirage is coming out of hiding for an interview..on GBNEWS...obviously going to be put under scrutiny on there