OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Shame about the first 2 paragraphs though.

What you mean those unfortunate facts that nobody on the Brexit side has a ****ing clue what happens post Brexit? or the clear economic consequences IF we don't get the right deal?? Or the unbelievable foolishness of those who seem to think that despite not having a clue how it will all turn out, somehow by a miracle we will all be OK? Aye un ****ing believable, no problem with others opinions but do look at reality FFS!

[AdiSalisbury]

"Facts" and "Reality".

[Andy_Faber]

What you mean those unfortunate facts that nobody on the Brexit side has a ****ing clue what happens post Brexit? or the clear economic consequences IF we don't get the right deal?? Or the unbelievable foolishness of those who seem to think that despite not having a clue how it will all turn out, somehow by a miracle we will all be OK? Aye un ****ing believable, no problem with others opinions but do look at reality FFS!

I'm a fellow remainer and I'm sure there are bumps in the road ahead but I think you are getting a bit overcome by 'I lost and its not fair!' syndrome. As for your last comment, no-one including you can look at reality because all this is in the future....

[Andy_Faber]

Swale takes a lot of stick on here...gives some out too, but whatever your position on the EU and immigration I defy anyone to sensibly suggest that the contents of that final paragraph represent anything other than complete common sense.

Ok here's a go

Yes there is a lot wrong with the Eu - agreed, and accepted even by remainers

But it isn't the source of all our ills - again agreed, and accepted even by Leavers

It wasn't the Eu which precipitated the 2008 economic crash - If EU had been an effective 'club' it would have been able to resist the wave of disaster that came from USA but the EUs piss poor legislation, as good as its most laissez-faire partner country, was in no way resilient enough. A UK-only set of rules may or may not have been stronger but that option wasn't on offer

It wasn't the Eu that caused the rebellions in Syria and other Arab countries - true but the EUs, again, piss-poor response to the resultant 'refugee' issue, especially the act of constituent countries basically making their own rules up, was a demonstration of the fragility of the union, and impractically of things like the Schengen agreement in times of stress

Countries working together is better than an isolationist approach - agreed but not in the way Swale means, UK won't be isolated, the nature of relationships will be different, and maybe in some cases more difficult, but NOT isolationist, I'm not sure ANYONE in a position of influence has used that word.

Remember I voted Remain

[Ram59]

So we're going to be isolated then, so Romania with its eu status is going to be more important than the UK and it's key membership of NATO, the United Nations and the G7.

[ramAnag]

As I said...'I defy anyone to sensibly suggest that the contents of that final paragraph represent anything other than complete common sense'. The key word is 'sensibly'...sometimes, despite the protestations, that's just the way of things. Happy New Year to all anyway.

[Ram59]

I take it you're referring to my post.

As part of NATO, we take a leading role in military exercises, as part of the U.N our forces are spread throughout the world on peacekeeping, as part of the G7, we are involved in major trading and business decisions that affect world commerce.

Tell me where the eu gets involved as a separate body, to such an extent that we will be isolated?

[Ram59]

Happy eu new year, anag and swale.

[ramAnag]

I take it you're referring to my post.

As part of NATO, we take a leading role in military exercises, as part of the U.N our forces are spread throughout the world on peacekeeping, as part of the G7, we are involved in major trading and business decisions that affect world commerce.

Tell me where the eu gets involved as a separate body, to such an extent that we will be isolated?

Actually no...Ram59. If I was referring to your post alone I'd have quoted you. My point was that Swale's final paragraph was sheer common sense. He takes a lot of stick as do I. Doesn't bother me at all tbh but there is a tendency amongst some to bleat when Swale goes on the attack while at the same time going out of their way to portray us as one eyed 'Europhiles' who should 'p**s off' out of the country if we don't like the 'outcome' of the Referendum. Of course Roger knows more about the complexities of the economic reality than I do and Andy invariably responds intelligently but however you all choose to dress things up, Swales assertions were totally correct. There is a great deal wrong with the EU but...the EU was not to blame for the economic crash of 2007 onwards, the EU was not responsible for the problems in the Middle East which have led to the mass movement (aka escape) of so many innocent dispossessed people and although I fully accept your point about NATO and the G7, we are now much more isolated from our geographical, cultural and trading neighbours than was the case before Brexit and if you want an image which sums up our new self imposed isolation just recall our PM's impression of 'Norma No Mates' at that pre Christmas EU function. Until people recognise that Brexit is not some sort of panacea for all our ills and that 'Johnny Foreigner' is not the cause of them all we will continue to struggle on as something of an isolated laughing stock run by opportunistic individuals who have long been unfamiliar with any notion of truth but hey ho, happy new year anyway.

[swaledale]

Happy New year Ram59, and indeed all other posters, no doubt this thread will rumble on into 2017, and its clear we all ahve very different views, but the main thing is promotion in may for the Rams!

[swaledale]

I'm a fellow remainer and I'm sure there are bumps in the road ahead but I think you are getting a bit overcome by 'I lost and its not fair!' syndrome. As for your last comment, no-one including you can look at reality because all this is in the future....

Well if you think that, then a) you have not read what i have posted and b) perhaps fail to comprehend what Brexit actually means!

I personally didn't lose, I'm making a mint assisting companies that are looking to minimise the effects of Brexit on their business, shame that this will be to the disadvantage of the UK in terms of jobs and taxes, but hey thats life folks!

My only gripe with the result of the referendum was that 52% to 48% is NOT an overwhelming majority and that 37% of the population does not represent "the will of the British people" as the Brexit side are fond of quoting.

I have no problem with accepting the result, (hey if turkeys want to vote for xmas..let them! The referendum should not of been held in the first place, simply because it was beyond the comprehension of most as to the impact of what they were voting for ( as posts on here amply demonstrate).

The other point which I keep repeating is that for many of those, especially the so called "ordinary people" voting leave will actually result in them being worse off than they were before, no question about that and those "elites" which they think they have "socked it to" will be laughing all the way to the bank!

It may be in the future, but there are certain undisputed effects that will occur if we choose the so called hard Brexit route and at least thats based on what is known, rather than the Brexit's view that somehow by some miracle we will come out of the process unscathed - again I repeat where are Farage and Johnson et al on what the post Brexit plan is?? No where other than saying Brexit must mean Brexit ye ****ing gods its un****ing believable!

[mistaram]

Swales zzzzzzzzzzz happy new year to you thank god for football

[Andy_Faber]

It may be in the future, but there are certain undisputed effects that will occur if we choose the so called hard Brexit route

Please list them. I'm not being mischievous, its actually important that the discussion (country-wide) is perpetuated, certainties confirmed, speculative bull**** and exaggeration identified as such.

[swaledale]

Please list them. I'm not being mischievous, its actually important that the discussion (country-wide) is perpetuated, certainties confirmed, speculative bull**** and exaggeration identified as such.

Andy I know your not, your responses are generally well thought out and reasoned and one of the reasons I bother to post on this thread, with on the face of it most posters in favour of Brexit is that at least an alternative point of view is out there, even if nobody a) takes any notice or b) gives a toss!

I will respond in due course!

[swaledale]

Swales zzzzzzzzzzz happy new year to you thank god for football

Happy new year to you as well, may your business prosper and may the Rams finally get promoted this year!