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ask german population perhaps its not fair or true but people are bound to think that way its gone far far beyond being fair ramanag . i disagree with our own countrys view of letting in refugees i think we should take more but then you hear read about them suing us for not letting us in its there human rights . i think the lid will blow off very soo n no matter what view we have
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I have close relatives and friends in Germany southern so I'm not entirely ignorant. Like anywhere in Europe there are those in Germany who believe Merkel and the authorities to have acted compassionately and those who resent the 'open door' policy.
I haven't actually heard of anyone suing us but I applaud your stance as regards this country's relative reluctance to accept refugees. For me one of the most disgraceful aspects of the whole Brexit campaign was Farage posing in front of a poster of Syrian refugees and trying to make political capital out of such a tragedy by telling a pack of totally misleading and irrelevant lies. Merkel may have been politically naive but she has a great deal more humanity and integrity than those, including Farage, who belong to the new right wing which is spreading like some sort of deadly virus across Northern Europe and the USA. I hope you're wrong and the 'lid' does not 'blow off' very soon but if it does then those on the far right who have spent so long masquerading as 'everyman' and representatives of the 'common people' will have an awful lot to answer for.Comment
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Why do you describe 'right wing' as a deadly virus? To me, it's as valid viewpoint as 'left wing', and the only 'virus' element of either viewpoint are those on the extremes. So For every Nigel Farage there's a Diane Abbott.Originally posted by ramAnag View Post
Regarding the Farage poster stunt, I think it was crude, BUT it sent out a powerful message that if UK borders are open to all EU citizens, and EU appears (through Merkel's largesse) to be open to all citizens of the world good and bad, QED UK borders are open to those same citizens. Given in particular the events in Germany last new year, I think it was a point tastelessly but validly made.Comment
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Fair point about the 'extremes' AF. I've got no time for Diane Abbott either but with her at least what you get is what you see...a woman who has made a career out of her own verbosity and has got a long way by 'virtue' of being black, female and outspoken. I don't actually see her as being dangerous though, whereas Farage has, imo, made a career out of creating disharmony, offers nothing at all in terms of solutions, is the personification of hypocrisy and is a man to whom manipulation of the 'facts' and being economical with the truth is now simply second nature.Comment
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Sorry Andy, got sidetracked and timed out...as for the 'deadly virus' comment...I've got little time for extremists of any kind, but isn't it true that right wing extremism is invariably synonymous with creating hatred and division whether that be on the basis of colour, ethnicity or religion and that what we are witnessing at the moment is certainly no exception?Comment
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....yet I genuinely believe that the rise of 'the right' has been enabled/emboldened by the outcomes of the possibly well-meaning but certainly ill-thought-through left-driven activities of 'the politically correct'.Originally posted by ramAnag View Post
Edit: The other significant thing regarding 'right' or 'left' leaning, is that it isn't a binary thing ie a million extreme right wingers have suddenly appeared from nowhere, its an issue of degrees, where ten million more or less reasonable folk have moved between slightly to significantly to the right. I must say I have, and its both against my upbringing and my broadly 'christian'/charitable values, and only after extensively soaking up personal/trusted third party experiences and objective reporting.Last edited by Andy_Faber; 30-12-2016, 03:43 PM.Comment
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Vicious circle I suppose...I take your point completely and the more vociferous of the 'politically correct' certainly have a lot to answer for. The 'new right' have been waiting in the wings for a while however...there was no such thing as political correctness in Germany in the thirties or Britain in the early seventies when the NF were so keen to raise their opportunistic and ugly head. They've never really needed much excuse but I agree, the irony of the current situation should not be overlooked. Oh for some common sense, decency and leadership in these increasingly troubled times.Originally posted by Andy_Faber View PostComment
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Anothe rpoint of view is that the far right are always popular when theres trouble, especially economic trouble because they utter simplistic solutions and apportion blame to easy scapegoats, such as immigrants etc.Originally posted by Andy_Faber View Post
Those more or less "reasonable" people are like sheep in the main - remmeber millions of "reasonable" germans supported Hitler until it all went wrong then somehow they didn't and of course were completely ignorant about what was taking place!
I do agree that a liberal left of centre that thought the market would take care of everything and ignored those left behind economically are to blame for people becoming more right wing in their thinking, but its at times like these when people need to understand that those currently perscribing the cure are no more looking after the "reasonable" persons interests than those left of centre.
One only has to look at Trump's "cabinet" all billionaires, do those unemployed or low wage people who voted for him really believe the guy gives a **** about them??Comment
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I think the answer to that issue is where did you read it? There is a lot of rubbish printed in the media which makes out that all immigrants are criminals or doing this or that and when you look closely its not actually the case.Originally posted by southernram22 View PostComment
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As I said in an earlier comment, I'M one of those reasonable people. No way am I a sheep.Originally posted by swaledale View PostComment
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My views are pushing you away? You mean you don't like FACTS! You would rather listen to bull**** peddled by equally corrupt people with their own agenda?Originally posted by southernram22 View Post
You are also wrong re brexit, it isn't a case of being over it, I couldn't really give a stuff, Brexit won't be an issue for me personally, in fact I'm doing ratther well from it, unfortunately the facts are that it is an economic own goal for the Uk and the very people who will suffer is the millions of "ordinary" people who voted for it.
What does get me is when people mostly brexiteers talk of "the will of the people" thats *******s yes a majority voted for brexit, but it wasn't a massive majority and was only 37% of the electorate, thats not the "will of the british people" and what is also clear is that nobody, not government nor the people who voted have a bloody clue as to what brexit will mean or what the "plan" for Brexit is now most reasonable people would question that - as a country we are taking a signifciant step that will impact on the future of this country and we don't have a ****ing plan??
As for Tricky, he talks utter *******s, but worse than that he says stuff that is plain offensive, taken straight from the pages of such crap papers as the daily Express FFS! He talks as economic and political turmoil in europe is a good thing, for who, certainly not for us, however much one might despise the current political system it has kept europe stable for over 50 years...oh sorry Tricky thinks thats down to NATO! Sorry when someone clearly hasn't a clue what he is talking about like Tricky and is xenophobic, racist and spouting what sounds like nazi propoganda, I don't give them the time of day.
Yes there is a lot wrong with the Eu, but it isn't the source of all our ills, it wasn't the Eu which precipitated the 2008 economic crash, it wasn't the Eu that caused the rebellions in Syria and other Arab countries, these are big issues which need to be dealt with and sorry but I believe that countries working together is better than an isolationist approach.Comment
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Swale takes a lot of stick on here...gives some out too, but whatever your position on the EU and immigration I defy anyone to sensibly suggest that the contents of that final paragraph represent anything other than complete common sense.Comment
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I might contest the "caused the 2008 crash" denial. Not wholly at fault no, but contributory for sure. The failure of regulation in uk banks was fairly central to the crash allowing the aggregation of toxic debt and fundamental mismanagement to go unchecked. The power to regulate the financial sector lies centrally in brussels and the regulation of uk and cross border eu banks was woeful. Yes its a bank of england responsibility but they cannot move without central eu say so.
Look at the insurance industry solvency 2 regulations - first espoused in the late 1990s I think: finally in force 2016 as the eu considered this that and everything, consulted widely contemplated their navels etc. Fortunately Rome didnt burn as they ceaselessly fiddled but it could easily have done. Reactive not proactive, slow cumbersome and ineffective....Comment
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You missed the fact that it all kicked off in the States which last time I looked wasn't under EU regulation, also yes the Uk had inadequate regulation but they could have done more without the Eu's say so, it just suited people who thought the bubble would never burst not to do so!
Its not just the Eu that tend to be slow cumbersome reactive, the Us and Uk governments weren't exactly quick off the mark, with the credit rating agencies not doing their job, because they didn't want to upset the banks a perfect storm was created and again it wasn't down to the EUComment
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