OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

I will challenge the prosperity bit. The world will become an open door. Where we go is down to us. You doom merchants may enjoy your monsters under the bed stories.

As for the EU. Open borders have allowed terrorists to slip across Europe at will. Ours appear to be home grown. With throwing out of the ECHR, maybe the police will have a bit more bollox to deal with them, like the groomers.
You may want a USE, but many of us don't. That is what has always scared me, that we was being lead up a garden path by stealth.
Cats out the bag now though. You and Swale cannot deny it anymore.

'The World will become an open door'...yeah right...just like that...everyone queuing to do the good old UK a favour.

Not sure where all your 'cat's out of the bag' talk has come from. Bit out of the loop with no TV or newspaper at the moment so bare with me.
Can't see how a USE is that likely. A united Europe I think is highly desirable...a USE seems less likely. The difference between the USA - where there are still actually huge differences in legislation between individual states - and any notion of a USE is that the countries of Europe are far more disparate with longer and more established traditions, different languages and cultures etc.
We aren't the only ones with notions of national pride so what makes you think the Spanish, Germans, French and Italians etc are all going to surrender their identity and sovereignty so willingly?

I don't think it's Swale and I who fear 'monsters under the bed'...I should watch that wardrobe door tonight.

[Trickytreesreds]

'The World will become an open door'...yeah right...just like that...everyone queuing to do the good old UK a favour.

Not sure where all your 'cat's out of the bag' talk has come from. Bit out of the loop with no TV or newspaper at the moment so bare with me.
Can't see how a USE is that likely. A united Europe I think is highly desirable...a USE seems less likely. The difference between the USA - where there are still actually huge differences in legislation between individual states - and any notion of a USE is that the countries of Europe are far more disparate with longer and more established traditions, different languages and cultures etc.
We aren't the only ones with notions of national pride so what makes you think the Spanish, Germans, French and Italians etc are all going to surrender their identity and sovereignty so willingly?

I don't think it's Swale and I who fear 'monsters under the bed'...I should watch that wardrobe door tonight.

Ramanag, Swale had said several times that a European army is fantasy. It echoed Cleggs claims

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/news/71123/nick-clegg-eu-army-dangerous-fantasy

Yet here it is. Do you trust these clowns?
I have always beat the drum, about a European superstate. I have always preached about the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan

Folks need to wake up. I actually pin my hopes on Poland/Hungary to stand up to the minions driving their dream. A USE.
They at least have national pride and have resisted the EU with the bullying of immigrant quotas.

We joined a COMMON MARKET FOR TRADE. Not a political union of government.

[ramAnag]

Ramanag, Swale had said several times that a European army is fantasy. It echoed Cleggs claims

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/news/71123/nick-clegg-eu-army-dangerous-fantasy

Yet here it is. Do you trust these clowns?
I have always beat the drum, about a European superstate. I have always preached about the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan

Folks need to wake up. I actually pin my hopes on Poland/Hungary to stand up to the minions driving their dream. A USE.
They at least have national pride and have resisted the EU with the bullying of immigrant quotas.

We joined a COMMON MARKET FOR TRADE. Not a political union of government.

That's hardly a revelation is it Tricky? There already is a 'common army of Europeans' to guard against aggression from Russia. Okay, it also has the support of the USA and Canada but it's called NATO.
I genuinely don't get your problem. Commonality of purpose amongst the European nations as regards our economic well being and security is surely a good thing and a 'common army of Europeans' is no more a 'European Army' than the UN is a 'World Army'.

[Trickytreesreds]

That's hardly a revelation is it Tricky? There already is a 'common army of Europeans' to guard against aggression from Russia. Okay, it also has the support of the USA and Canada but it's called NATO.
I genuinely don't get your problem. Commonality of purpose amongst the European nations as regards our economic well being and security is surely a good thing and a 'common army of Europeans' is no more a 'European Army' than the UN is a 'World Army'.

Rubbish, you want to live under a new regime?
A regime that is unelected and deciding your future? WOW JUST WOW

[ramAnag]

Rubbish, you want to live under a new regime?
A regime that is unelected and deciding your future? WOW JUST WOW

Why does that make me want to 'live under a new regime'?
NATO has grown, I think, from ten European nations and two North American ones to the same two NA ones and 27 European ones since its inception in 1949. What, in reality, is the difference between that and a 'common army of Europeans'?
Let's face it...I want a unified Europe...you stand for Little Britain going it alone. We're never going to see eye to eye and it's just bloody boring for everybody else so let's give it a rest.

[KingCharlieGeorge]

Anagram... it's an unwritten rule to never argue with someone who responds with "wow just wow". He'll bring you down to his level of idiocy and win through experience!

[Andy_Faber]

Why does that make me want to 'live under a new regime'?
NATO has grown, I think, from ten European nations and two North American ones to the same two NA ones and 27 European ones since its inception in 1949. What, in reality, is the difference between that and a 'common army of Europeans'?
Let's face it...I want a unified Europe...you stand for Little Britain going it alone. We're never going to see eye to eye and it's just bloody boring for everybody else so let's give it a rest.

I think you nailed it there R, no-one's been prepared to give an inch right the way through nearly 3000 posts so it should be laid to rest. Its not just us, the whole world has dug its heels in on so many subjects

[ramAnag]

I think you nailed it there R, no-one's been prepared to give an inch right the way through nearly 3000 posts so it should be laid to rest. Its not just us, the whole world has dug its heels in on so many subjects

You're probably right AF, although I think you and I are amongst the minority who have arguably remained more open minded.
The tragedy is that, rights and wrongs of the original argument apart - and you clearly know where I stand on that one - the handling of any subsequent debate/negotiations has been unprecedentedly dreadful.
Those responsible for negotiating our withdrawal seem to me completely unfit for purpose and our country is suffering - in terms of business and economic planning, higher prices etc - while a mixture of incompetent and discredited politicians, often from the same party of supposed 'government', shout from the sidelines in the manner of something resembling a schoolyard scrap.
So sad and so avoidable.

[Andy_Faber]

You're probably right AF, although I think you and I are amongst the minority who have arguably remained more open minded.
The tragedy is that, rights and wrongs of the original argument apart - and you clearly know where I stand on that one - the handling of any subsequent debate/negotiations has been unprecedentedly dreadful.
Those responsible for negotiating our withdrawal seem to me completely unfit for purpose and our country is suffering - in terms of business and economic planning, higher prices etc - while a mixture of incompetent and discredited politicians, often from the same party of supposed 'government', shout from the sidelines in the manner of something resembling a schoolyard scrap.
So sad and so avoidable.

I've always been of the opinion that some stuff is just too important for politicians to be given control of (most stuff, you might say), and IMO it would be better if, lets say, the 'Brexit Bill' could be decided by an independent arbiter after both sides make their submissions. I've used various arbitration services over the years and although I might be a bit biased because my view has usually prevailed, I've found them a great way of taking the 'heat' out of disputes

[swaledale]

I think you're wasting your time at the mo TTR, we're all brexitted out. Ramjet's lurking, Swale's become a ram in sheep's clothing to avoid controversy, Ramanag and I are sitting on different bits of the same fence, I think we're just glad to get back to some good old footy banter, as you can see by how on fire this message board is

Nothing changes I see, TTR's spouts the usual tosh and fails to see the irony, R4J has ruined it as a footie forum and Andy's imagination is running wild. Will not be wasting my time posting on here as it stands and certainly would not waste my time posting under an alias!

[Andy_Faber]

Nothing changes I see, TTR's spouts the usual tosh and fails to see the irony, R4J has ruined it as a footie forum and Andy's imagination is running wild. Will not be wasting my time posting on here as it stands and certainly would not waste my time posting under an alias!

That's a shame, your football insights were always worth a read, and although your Brexit utterances were for the most part unsubstantiated, at least they promoted debate. Unlike Levi Stubbs I AM too proud to beg, but it would be nice to see you back in the fray.

[Trickytreesreds]

Nothing changes I see, TTR's spouts the usual tosh and fails to see the irony, R4J has ruined it as a footie forum and Andy's imagination is running wild. Will not be wasting my time posting on here as it stands and certainly would not waste my time posting under an alias!

Still in denial with your European army etc?

Laughable

[swaledale]

That's a shame, your football insights were always worth a read, and although your Brexit utterances were for the most part unsubstantiated, at least they promoted debate. Unlike Levi Stubbs I AM too proud to beg, but it would be nice to see you back in the fray.

You mean I never gave a link to the daily express? if you'd bothered to google I'm sure you would have been able to find enough facts to back up my statements, but there again if you doubted what i said then best left really not interested in arguing the toss, the facts will speak for themselves in time.

As for Tricky I could demolish virtually everything he says, but why bother, leave the delusional to their delusions it keeps them happy.

Thats my last word, I may return when the Forum regains some forum but see no point at the moment.

[Andy_Faber]

Thats my last word

OK, talk later

[Trickytreesreds]

You mean I never gave a link to the daily express? if you'd bothered to google I'm sure you would have been able to find enough facts to back up my statements, but there again if you doubted what i said then best left really not interested in arguing the toss, the facts will speak for themselves in time.

As for Tricky I could demolish virtually everything he says, but why bother, leave the delusional to their delusions it keeps them happy.

Thats my last word, I may return when the Forum regains some forum but see no point at the moment.

Demolish me/

Junckers speech endorsed everything I said and you re buffed?

Total arse I'm afraid.

Read back on your posts, you may feel a little bit silly.