OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Joining the 'soothsayers' eh, Andy?
What a horrible dilemma you provide us with. Can't I have the third way...the UK remains in a fairer and less bureaucratic EU and UKIP gets out of the UK...please?
Oh...and Derby winning the playoffs too would be nice.

As you say...'a bit Utopian' but a man can dream.

No, just thinking it through.

I think 'UKIP getting out of the UK' would be a bad thing, my view is that after two decades of the two major parties gradually becoming centre-ground clones of each other, 'the UKIP factor' at least got the conservatory party to show its historical, right-leaning, colours, and Labour to bounce off in the other direction. So now, in party political terms, we at least have a clear choice in ideologies

[ramAnag]

Right...so UKIP's achievement is to divide the nation and simultaneously polarise domestic politics so that we're now left with hard right figures like Fox, Johnson and Duncan Smith representing the Tories against idealistic incompetents like Corbyn and Abbott. Well thanks for that, I'm sure we all feel much better off as a result.

[Andy_Faber]

Right...so UKIP's achievement is to divide the nation and simultaneously polarise domestic politics so that we're now left with hard right figures like Fox, Johnson and Duncan Smith representing the Tories against idealistic incompetents like Corbyn and Abbott. Well thanks for that, I'm sure we all feel much better off as a result.

You're just providing a list of the extremists, that's not where most of these respective political parties are at, but they HAVE moved.

[swaledale]

I see Boris has said that Brexit will be a "Titanic success" words that may come back to haunt him?

All UKIP have done is appeal to those who believe there are simple answers to complicated questions, much the same as Trump has done in the US - the parties haven't moved, its just that the factions on both sides with extreme and rather nonsensical views have come to the fore and that hasn't been a good thing.

[Manofpride]

IMO you are being a bit Utopian, MPs will be bothered about what keeps them in the plague pit for another term. And also IMO UKIP will make one Hell of a noise about this.

You have to ask yourself, do you want Britain out of EU, or Britain in EU and UKIP in government (or at least holding the balance of power)

As usual, I'm not making a political point, just reading the tea leaves

The perfect scenario would be Britain out of the EU and UKIP in government with Nigel Farage leading the Country. Would be disappointing to stay in the EU after Britain's people voted to leave. The remain folk will be trying to find a way of getting a vote for Kim Jong-un to run our Country next!

[ramAnag]

You're just providing a list of the extremists, that's not where most of these respective political parties are at, but they HAVE moved.

It's not just a 'list of the extremists' though Andy. It's a list of relative extremists who now hold more prominent positions within their Parties precisely because of the UKIP/Brexit effect. That's the point. Fox, Johnson, Duncan Smith, David Davis were 'wannabes', 'has beens' and 'also rans' prior to the Brexit vote. Likewise the backlash against Corbyn's inarticulate inadequacy in the build up to the Brexit vote has led to the more able Labour politicians wanting to distance themselves from him meaning that the opposition is currently made up of second or third raters such as Diane Abbott.

[ramAnag]

The perfect scenario would be Britain out of the EU and UKIP in government with Nigel Farage leading the Country. Would be disappointing to stay in the EU after Britain's people voted to leave. The remain folk will be trying to find a way of getting a vote for Kim Jong-un to run our Country next!

Oh dear! So 'Remainers' - those who want to remain part of the European Community and avoid isolationism - somehow have something in common with the despotic leader of the most isolated nation on Earth. How does that work then?

P.S. When did 37% become 'Britain's people' and when did the Referendum become anything other than 'advisory'?

[swaledale]

The perfect scenario would be Britain out of the EU and UKIP in government with Nigel Farage leading the Country. Would be disappointing to stay in the EU after Britain's people voted to leave. The remain folk will be trying to find a way of getting a vote for Kim Jong-un to run our Country next!

I am assuming your jesting? Faraga leading the country? On what basis do you calculate that this one agenda (his own) wise guy who has never articulated what his vision (because he hasn't one!) for the UK post Brexit was? Who has been conspicuosly absent and silent on what happens next and who turns up on stage with another detestable human being in Trump?

What aspect of these wealthy guys conning the "ordinary person" in to thinking they give **** about them is not obvious? I realise that simple answers to complicated questions are appealing to simple folk, but on what level does the lies and inaccuracies peddled by Farage have to each before most people recognise him for what he is?

Only 37% of the population voted to leave thats hardly Britains people and the Scots and Northern Irish who were British last time I looked voted to stay!

Anyway the argument is not about whether we leave, thats pretty much a done deal, the question is the terms on which we leave and the right of the Uk democratically elected sovereign parliament to debate those terms! You talk about voting for Kim Jong-Un, which is ironic, because what May is trying to do is have the executive decide what happens with no reference to parliament! Thats kind of how dictators run countries!!

Brexit equals turkeys voting for Christmas and they stil don't realise it yet!

[AdiSalisbury]

Lets stop hanging on to this 37% rubbish please....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

If anything, this shows how our nation is truly split. Ironic how those in Scotland don't want to be ruled by London, and shows how the rest of England's & Wales' views differ from London's.

Elephant in the room is of course that London is largely populated by foreign persons or close dependants of.

[Gaspode]

.....Only 37% of the population voted to leave.....

Which is a bigger percentage than the 35% that voted to stay.....

[ramAnag]

Of course it's a 'bigger percentage than 35%' and it has to be listened to...but it's hardly equates to 'the people have spoken' does it?

In any case 'the people' (37% of them) voted for 'Brexit' and since then we've been repeatedly told that 'Brexit means Brexit', but seeing as no one can agree on what 'Brexit' ever meant...end immigration, stop links with Europe, close the Channel Tunnel, leave the 'Single Market', leave the EU but remain in the 'Single Market'...whatever, that all tends to be a tad meaningless doesn't it?

[AdiSalisbury]

It means leave the EU... it was written on the ballot paper. It's only remainders who seem confused.

[roger_ramjet]

Before we head back down the "its only 37% of the electorate" route, it is worth noting that I believe no government has ever been voted in with more than 37% of the popular vote in support of it. Hence the Brexit vote, as inconclusive as you may think it is Mangara, is a bigger mandate from the people than that received by any "elected government" ever.

[ramAnag]

It means leave the EU... it was written on the ballot paper. It's only remainders who seem confused.

So that'll be why an estimated 4% (Daily Telegraph) - quite crucial in the circumstances - of Brexiteers have since become 'Regrexiteers' then Adi.
Does leave the EU, as you suggest it means, also mean leaving the Single Market, or isn't it the case that the vast majority of people actually hadn't even heard of the Single Market before the countless debates that have ensued since June 23rd?

Sorry Rog, done this one to death. You simply cannot compare a two horse race (In/Out Referendum) with a four - eight horse race (General Election).

[Gaspode]

Of course it's a 'bigger percentage than 35%' and it has to be listened to...but it's hardly equates to 'the people have spoken' does it?.....

Sorry, but the remainers keep using the 37% as a justification to say that the majority didn't vote to leave - that is of course technically correct, however the majority of those that actually voted (which is how the referendum was set out and how the decision was reached) did vote to leave.

If 'the people' didn't want that result, then more should have gone out to vote and more should have voted remain - I struggle to see why this concept is so difficult for folk to grasp...

The decision has been made - all that remains is a requirement for the government to negotiate the best deal for the country - which won't be helped by having to spell out what their negotiating stance is in public before they're allowed to trigger Article 50 and start the real negotiations.....