OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

IMO, through decades of observation and painful experience, the Russell Group 'red brick' universities are just an extension of the 'old boys club' (and old girls these days). I have worked with recruiting managers who would absolutely not consider a candidate for a job if they hadn't been through a red brick uni, and from the first day in the job such people have had an invisible marker on them that said 'one of us - treat favourably'. And I can't think of a single one that was inherantly better than their 'modern Uni' or non-uni colleagues. Being red brick just opens doors and I find that massively unfair.

Who said earlier that I was right of centre?

[mistaram]

ramAnag Yes you're right clutching straws was over the top and I apologize I have a reason for wanting Brexit and wil tell you sometime

[Trickytreesreds]

I keep hearing this comparison too (not just from you) and I think its both distasteful and a bit desperate.

No no, it's valid. Swale has already convinced me that Europe would have plunged into war without the EU.
After all, it had had, 12 years of sweating before Italy/France and West(remember them) Germany, decided that the EEC was a good idea and signed the treaty of Rome. Which even though was an Economic community, they must have known, there would never be a war now that we traded spaghetti,garlic and sausages.
Of course NATO had been around since 1949 and it's prime sermon was that member states to come to the aid of any member state subject to an armed attack,

Of course don't let me tarnish this wonderful new Empire,that has flourished and rose to political prominence of a super state that no one even voted for.
Strike that, I'm a Brexiter. I don't believe in democracy.

[Ram59]

It makes me laugh when people quote various forcasts as hard data or fact. The only thing we know from the last few years is that forcasts and opinion polls are a complete waste of time and money. I mean, even supposedly current figures are later proved wrong. Remember the triple dip recession that wasn't even a single dip recession!

[mistaram]

I heard the chairman of the OBR Robert Chote on radio4 He was saying there is high chance that the UK economy could actually soar after Brexit because nobody really knows the outcome of the negotiations Suppose you believe what want suit your agenda

[Ram59]

I agree, us brexiteers are currently quoting better than expected economic figures, but we could find out in 3 years time that we've had actually gone into recession these last few months.

It'll be a number of years before we can reach a verdict, if ever. How many eu citizens think the euro is the best thing since sliced bread and how many think it's the biggest disaster to hit their country, even after all these years.

[Gaspode]

Sounds as if the EU is about to lurch into yet another crisis - they've voted (by a huge majority) to break off negotiations for Turkey to join the EU (because Turkey has reacted so badly to the attempted coup and effectively locked up anyone they didn't like the look of) - Turkey has today responded by saying that in that case, they will open their borders and let all of the migrants through into Europe.....

[swaledale]

IMO, through decades of observation and painful experience, the Russell Group 'red brick' universities are just an extension of the 'old boys club' (and old girls these days). I have worked with recruiting managers who would absolutely not consider a candidate for a job if they hadn't been through a red brick uni, and from the first day in the job such people have had an invisible marker on them that said 'one of us - treat favourably'. And I can't think of a single one that was inherantly better than their 'modern Uni' or non-uni colleagues. Being red brick just opens doors and I find that massively unfair.

Who said earlier that I was right of centre?

Well you haven't thought very much then, you only need to compare the same degree at a good university to one offered at a "new" one to see the difference in content and challenge. Its not about opening doors its about trying to find a standard when degrees and education have been dumbed down for years - as for it being "an old boys club", well thats *******s and ignorance - it could be levelled at Oxbridge where far too few state school pupils gain entrance but not at established universities by and large where the intake is much more diverse.

Yet again you quote something as if its the general rule, people with degrees vary immensely, some are insufferable pompous pricks most are hard working and don't act as you describe, hence my comment about recruiters establishing a standard for graduates and then testing their aptitude and attitude rather than assuming a first class degree equals employable person - your showing signs of reverse snobbery as bad a trait as snobbery IMO.

[swaledale]

It makes me laugh when people quote various forcasts as hard data or fact. The only thing we know from the last few years is that forcasts and opinion polls are a complete waste of time and money. I mean, even supposedly current figures are later proved wrong. Remember the triple dip recession that wasn't even a single dip recession!

It makes me laugh when people cannot understand hard data, real earnings haven't increased for over 8 years, thats easy to assess and is a fact and won't be disproved later. That trend is likely to continue for another decade given the economic climate.

Of course one can interpret figure according to ones own agenda, however there are certain facts, hard data that cannot be denied and whilst anyone can believe what they wish, for the loweer income earners wage levels have been stganant and will continue to be.

As for the chairman of the OBR as has been said their forecasts as against what actually happens has never been right!

[swaledale]

Sounds as if the EU is about to lurch into yet another crisis - they've voted (by a huge majority) to break off negotiations for Turkey to join the EU (because Turkey has reacted so badly to the attempted coup and effectively locked up anyone they didn't like the look of) - Turkey has today responded by saying that in that case, they will open their borders and let all of the migrants through into Europe.....

I think you will find that A Turkey wants the money promised by the EU and B Turkey is less interested in EU membership it doesn't suit the current regimes political thinking, so this is just political posturing and will easily be sorted by a few million euros!

[swaledale]

I agree, us brexiteers are currently quoting better than expected economic figures, but we could find out in 3 years time that we've had actually gone into recession these last few months.

It'll be a number of years before we can reach a verdict, if ever. How many eu citizens think the euro is the best thing since sliced bread and how many think it's the biggest disaster to hit their country, even after all these years.

Well Greece actually elected a party that was supposed to either negotiate a better deal with the Eu or leave the Euro and to date they have achieved neither and are still in power! The only clamour to leave the Eu is from far right extremists!

[swaledale]

No no, it's valid. Swale has already convinced me that Europe would have plunged into war without the EU.
After all, it had had, 12 years of sweating before Italy/France and West(remember them) Germany, decided that the EEC was a good idea and signed the treaty of Rome. Which even though was an Economic community, they must have known, there would never be a war now that we traded spaghetti,garlic and sausages.
Of course NATO had been around since 1949 and it's prime sermon was that member states to come to the aid of any member state subject to an armed attack,

Of course don't let me tarnish this wonderful new Empire,that has flourished and rose to political prominence of a super state that no one even voted for.
Strike that, I'm a Brexiter. I don't believe in democracy.

There are times when your ignorance of history is astounding! Also I did not say that Europe would have been plunged into a bloody war without the EU, however it is recognised by those intelligent enough to do so that history shows that nations which have strong trading links and for whom it is mutually ebneficial to cooperate with a far less likley to go to war to settle their differences.

For the record and just so you know

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created in 1949 by the United States, Canada, and several Western European nations to provide collective security against the Soviet Union.

The European Union is set up with the aim of ending the frequent and bloody wars between neighbours, which culminated in the Second World War. As of 1950, the European Coal and Steel Community begins to unite European countries economically and politically in order to secure lasting peace.

If you want to argue with me, please do your ****ing homework first, as all you do is make yourself look a ****! Not for the first time I might add!

[Andy_Faber]

as for it being "an old boys club", well thats *******s and ignorance - it could be levelled at Oxbridge where far too few state school pupils gain entrance but not at established universities by and large where the intake is much more diverse.

It's far from ignorance, it's (as I said) decades of observation. And no bitterness about it, I took a different route and did OK. But I maintain it's one of the hidden prejudices that still inhabits the business world

[Andy_Faber]

take a break swale, you'll end up taking issue with one of your own posts if you aren't careful

[swaledale]

It's far from ignorance, it's (as I said) decades of observation. And no bitterness about it, I took a different route and did OK. But I maintain it's one of the hidden prejudices that still inhabits the business world

I don't disagree that there is an emphasis on degrees, the point i was making is that its difficult for employers to guage the quality of the degree these days, there are many crap ones from crap educational institutions that were a waste of time and money for thsoe doing them.

Nor do I hold the view that where you got your degree necessarily has any bearing on anyone's potential, however to call it hidden prejudice is a bit strong, like it or not human's make judgements, we all do everyday and when your taking a gamble on employing someone and if you need a graduate, then one from a good university is where any sensible employer will start.